IEM Query.

[Vin Trouble]

im currently working in an 80's duo, using backing tracks. I use a small Galaxy Audio Hotspot powered monitor on stage, to hear the show, but I'm wondering about taking the plunge and buying IEM's, to help my performance, not least vocally. I am wondering if anyone can suggest if this is a good idea with my setup, as there is not much noise onstage- no drums, obviously, and no guitar amp ( direct to desk via a Pod HD500x). I do the mixing, via a Behringer XR12 and iPad, to a QSC system, and worry if the PA had hissy fit during a gig I wouldn't notice with earphones! Should I persevere with the micro monitor, or take the plunge?Thanks in advance.

[paulears]

I have been using IEMs for getting on for two years now. Lots of the things I've discovered fall in line with what the general IEM info on the net says, but not all.

 

The present setup with the band is that there are four of use, and everyone needs quite different mixes. On stage, the drummer ALWAYS uses wired IEMs I use radio IEMs and the other two (guitar and keys cannot/will not) make the switch. They use personal hotspots. We now all have Behringer P16 mixers, which everyone loves. On PA supplied gigs it is much more of a problem. The big snags for us are that a poor monitor mix on wedges can be coped with by turning your head a little so you can hear the others, or moving around a little. A bad mix on IEMs is always a bad mix, and you have the option of popping one, or both out to see if it gets better. This weekend we were on a big stage with around 5000 people and using the provided kit. The dangling boxes couldn;t be heard from the stage, apart from the bottom end, so monitors were more important than ever. On these kinds of gigs, a wedge is safer, but for various reasons, I brought in a radio rack and used my IEMs. The guy doing monitors knew his stuff, and responded in the soundcheck well, and during the show - but I did pull one out in one song when I couldn't hear myself properly, but shoved it back in when the song ended because the on stage sound was really horrible, and the drums a fair way away.

 

With IEMs, you are isolated. You can do the trick of adding in an audience mic to get room sound, but I find it doesn't help much. Think of IEMs as being akin to playing in the studio with can on. It's just not live. However, after a while you start to hear more, get used to how it sounds and they work.

 

I've gone back to soft foam inserts rather than the moulds because they are (in my ears) difficult to seal. I've tried two ways of having the impressions made - closed mouth and open mouth, and my style means that the closed ones crack the seal when I open my mouth wide, but the later open mouth impressions feel 'tight' when my mouth is closed. The isolation on the moulds is oddly less than the foam expandables - which does cause less hearing problems when they are in when people speak to you, while the foam ones do keep a little more out - which I quite like. I'm not using mega expensive ones. I have three pairs of Shure SE215s, which I rather like - two new and one second hand on ebay that needed new cables.

 

If your needs are modest, then for your duo, they could work nicely, once you get used to them - and learn to trust them. The only potential snag is assessing volume if you are shut off from the room - you can set a level before you start, but if the room gets noisy, how will you know to turn the wick up?

 

I'm trying to convince the other two to use them, but no luck so far. They did one rehearsal and said no. Trying to convince them won't work. The more I try the more heels dig in. I think you have to want or need to do in-ears, otherwise its not going to work.

[Vin Trouble]

Thanks for your(as always) most informative reply. I think I'll bite the bullet when I see something within my budget.

[MarkBarl]

I play bass in a trio. The drummer and I have been using wired IEMs for a couple of years ago. (I can't afford radio IEMs at the moment) We love them. We decided to go that way to reduce on stage volume and clutter. We play a mixture of venues, some quite small. Standing right next to a full drum kit takes it's toll on my hearing, so I like the noise reduction I get, with the IEMs, no ringing ears at the end of the gig. I use some Ultimate Ears Super Fi 5 pros. Though I don't know if you can get hold of them any more. I find them great because of the bass response. For me using the ears gives great monitoring for my vocals and bass without having to have volume on stage. We recently added a mic for the kit, specifically to bring it into the monitors, this has helped us get tighter as I and the drummer can hear it better and lock together.

I find the ambient bleed through the vocal mics to be sufficient to give me a vibe.

[BigYinUK]

I think you have to want or need to do in-ears, otherwise its not going to work.

 

I think that's bang on Paul.

 

I know I've said this before, I just would not want to play without my IEMs. OK, in some situations its not practical, but for most gigs, especially the smaller stages where you're all on top of each other, its a must.

 

As a guitarist, I was initially very against IEMs - all the usual arguments; won't get any feel, won't get the nuances of my playing etc, but actually the opposite applies. I can hear my playing much clearer, so my accuracy is getting better and better and the tightness of the band is way better.

 

I usually soundcheck briefly without my IEMs, then pop them in once we're all set to do a number or two.

 

I'm also very keen on the "small amp, miked up" scenario rather than sharing the stage with an unmiked 100w Marshall.

 

My advice to anyone one considering IEMs would be to invest in the very best gear you can afford - The cheap stuff really doesn't work very well, and so the whole first IEM experience could well be a bad one and I suspect this is the reason a lot of folks say they've tried them and they don't work (for them).

 

If you are pushed for cash, just go wired if you can. IMO the cheap end of wireless is really really poor, unusable tbh. So either bite the bullet and buy top end wireless kit or, like I did, go for a good second hand Shure or Sennheiser system.

 

That's my ten pence worth.

 

Regards

 

Jon

[paulears]

Since we started this, my Chinese supplier sent me a link to IEMs - pure coincidence. One of the units in the complex has started to do what clearly look like Sennheisers - but so far, they are not being sold as Sennheiser - which is actually quite nice. So far, none in any of our bands. Not even the old ch69 band to use the bottom end of, or ch 70. However, I suspect these will come. I've asked for some info, but as usual they are a bit clueless and confused by the language. One they showed me pictures of is a dual unit rack transmitter with two Sennheiser style receivers. The inputs are left and right for each transmitter and there are two L+R level trimmers, and of course the receivers are described as mono! There is also what clearly appears to be a G3 looking system. Price wise, the dual system would cost me less than £200 including duty and VAT. I don't need them at the moment, but I might get one at some point to experiment with.

[paulears]

I've had some more info back from the China suppliers. I sent them the information on the three current frequency allocations.

 

606.5 - 613MHz

823 - 832MHz

863 - 865MHz

 

They can now only supply on

572 Mhz - 603.5Mhz, - No use at all

740.1Mhz - 771.6Mhz - No use at all

798.2 Mhz - 829.7Mhz - A small overlap with ch 69 new low allocation giving an overlap of 823 - 829.7MHz.

 

My Sennheiser transmitters go down to 830MHz (EW300)

 

The supplier says the authorities there are clamping down on equipment for ch 69 and ch 38 there is used by the military, so not a huge amount of success, so far!

[paulears]

They've just offered me some twin channel systems - two in a rack, very similar in design to the sennheisers, but this time each channel has a USB socket on the panel and you can play out mp3s into the audio going to the receiver, with transport controls. There is no audio output, so I'm trying to think of how these would be used before buying some - usual combo connectors for L/R inputs. What on earth could you use these for in a live situation? It's file based, so not seen by the computer as an audio device, where I could see at least some use perhaps? Very strange design feature.

[paulears]

Update.

The receiver arrived. It's very similar to the Sennheiser - Volume knob is different visually, and the front plastic flap is a bit plasticky. BUT programming is totally different and a quick look inside reveals a pcbs with no real resemblance to the Sennheiser, but it is neat and tidy. It has four bands, split across the entire range, and there is NO tuning facility, just the 10 presets in each band. The new bottom of ch69 allocation is just 3 channels - making these systems a bit pointless. Top limit is also one 25KHz channel below the lowest a Sennheiser can manage, so you can't mix and match - I had hoped for maybe a channel or two. They are cheap enough, and I'd certainly use it - and at the price they'd be quite good as TV style IFB receivers in the studio, with a single ear piece. No stereo adjustments, like the focus and pan the Sennheisers have in mono or stereo operation. The front up down buttons only have a function in program mode. I'm not going to order any of these.

[paulears]

another update. I sent them a copy of my license showing the frequency bands, and the factory have produced some in channel 38. They're sending me one to play with. a dual unit in a 19" 1U rack format, with two receivers. Combo inputs, L+R on each one. Might be good, might be bad, costs less than £200.

[J Pearce]

I'd be interested to see the outcome, especially with some frequency plots of the transmitters, and some evaluative testing of the selectiveness of the receivers. I've been working with some musicians who have bought the thomann IEMs, and I've been less than impressed with their resilience.

[paulears]

A little more info - their keenness to make channel 38 systems was more difficult than they imagined. I got this.

Feng Tina: Dear Paul, how are you? I hope everything goes well with you. I just need to correct some information shown on website:

"40 preset channels separately by 4 groups," should be "32 preset channels separately by 2 groups". Don't worry, the frequency range is still 606Mhz-614Mhz, it will working very good in United Kingdom. Best regards. Tina

They try really hard to give you what you ask for - it's not on the way yet - so we'll see.

[paulears]

UPDATE - It's not coming due to "problems with authorities". They've asked me to cancel the order because they don't know how long it will take to overcome the problem. So they could make channel 69 kit and ship it here with no issues at all, but channel 38 is not at the moment possible. I suspect Google translate does much of the work in our communications, but considering how easy they usually find production, it does make you wonder what the problem is with channel 38?

[GaryNattrass]

I suspect as CH38 is used by the military in China just making the kit may cause problems, I know that when my colleagues were setting up the 2008 Olympics they had huge problems, some of them were very close to being arrested and deported.

[azlan]

I don't know enough about how these systems work, but would it be feasible to create a system that was shipped tuned to something else (another range near ch38, thats not used by the military), and then flash the firmware once it arrives in the UK to adjust the tuning range of the system?