Biskit Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi Guys, Hopefully a quick one as I'm trting to resolve a problem... just need to know, on a Zero88 Betapack 3 dimmer, running 3-phase star wiring as supplied, are the channels phased L1=Chan 1&2, L2=Chan 3&4, L3 =Chan 5&6 or are they interleaved? I'm sure the answer is in the book but in my haste I can't spot it! In the meantime, I'm going to make up some 'get me out of jail' cables! Cheers,Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pscandrett Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'm 95% sure they're normally L1 L1 L2 L2 L3 L3. What 'get out of jail' cables do you need in this context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biskit Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'm 95% sure they're normally L1 L1 L2 L2 L3 L3. What 'get out of jail' cables do you need in this context? Thanks. Bit of a long tale to tell but essentially we have an Anytronics Contractor dimmer which is, shall we say, "on its last legs" and has been getting unreliable for a while. I've gradually been moving things off it and onto our other racks where possible, but am left with just three rarely-used curcuits on it. Very soon we will be freeing up a load of channels on another rack by replacing a lot of old frixtures with new LED (at which point the anytronics rack will be retired for good), but it has all got a bit political so we're still waiting... anyway last night mid-show the rack really threw a wobbly with random flickering of those three channels, to the point that I had to talk a colleague through (over the phone mid op) switching off the individual channels concerned and manage without them. Now we have this spare Betapack, which I have located up in the loft space (this is an old building with lights mounted through the ceiling). Luckily there is 3-phase power up there (originally for a now disused winch system) but it is only 15A per phase. The three loads are about 9A each so I need to ensure I get them on a phase each, hence my question. The cables I needed to make were just the necessary adaptors to go from the 15A Betapack outlets to the various fixtures through holes in the ceiling and such like. All done and working now, just in time for today's rehearsal starting in ten minutes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pscandrett Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Interestingly as a point to ponder, if you only need three channels and you need them to be on different phases but don't know how it's configured... If you plug your lights into channels 1, 3 and 5 then no matter whether it's 112233 or 123123 your three lights will be on different phases. (Or indeed 2, 4 and 6.) As ever, this comes with the caveat that you shouldn't rely on this, should meter it out, know what your power is doing at all times, etc so please don't take this the wrong way - but I've never come across a dimmer that's not been 112233 or 123123. Obviously as soon as you're dealing with channels patched through elsewhere this can't be trusted at all but in your circumstance it's an interesting way of thinking about the problem. (I've tried desperately to phrase this so that I don't get shot down by the 'if you don't know what you're doing' response. I just thought it interesting that channels 1, 3 and 5 will be on different phases no matter which common configuration the dimmer is in!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itiba Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 but I've never come across a dimmer that's not been 112233 or 123123. I did once come accross a 12-channel dimmer that was wired 111122 223333 from its 2 soca outputs but would agree with your theory on 6-channel-dimmers (altho would always meter out to be sure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biskit Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Interestingly as a point to ponder, if you only need three channels and you need them to be on different phases but don't know how it's configured... If you plug your lights into channels 1, 3 and 5 then no matter whether it's 112233 or 123123 your three lights will be on different phases. (Or indeed 2, 4 and 6.) I'd already come to that conclusion to be honest after I posted my question so went for 1,3,5 before I came back to the office and saw your reply. It's a brand new rack out-of-the box so the chances of it being anything other than 112233 or 123123 is just about zero, but even in that highly unlikely scenario the worst case is I'd trip the protective device, no different from someone overloading the dressing room ring main with a load of hairdryers for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianknight Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'm 95% sure they're normally L1 L1 L2 L2 L3 L3. What 'get out of jail' cables do you need in this context? Thanks. Bit of a long tale to tell but essentially we have an Anytronics Contractor dimmer which is, shall we say, "on its last legs" and has been getting unreliable for a while. Have you spoken to Anytronics about your rack - they're usually very good with after sales and supporting folk who want to repair their kit? From memory the processor card on a Contractor is easy to swap out (or even remove for Anytronics to repair for you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardash1981 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'm 95% sure they're normally L1 L1 L2 L2 L3 L3.On a Mk 1 they have to be this way - only 3 zero crossing detectors, and the triac firing boards are built in pairs on adjacent channels. Hence when the zero crossing resistors fail, pairs of adjacent channels lock full on (or was it dead - long time since I was fixing betapacks)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 As others have posted, a suitable connection scheme would allow for both 112233 and for 123123. The only problem that I can foresee, is that if by some mischance, you do end up with 2 dimmed loads each of 9 amps on a 15 amp circuit, then the 15 amp fuse/MCB might carry this for hours before eventually tripping at some most inconvenient moment. Presuming that the 15 amp circuit is correctly wired there should be no danger, only inconvenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biskit Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Thanks for the replies, I eventually got chance to meter the phase loadings on the supply line and ascertained that I had managed to get one load onto each phase that way, so all is good. I was aware of the possibility of the 15A breaker carrying 18A or so for a long time before tripping at an inconvenient time so I checked it out before the actual show last night. Re. the Anytronics rack - I've been on to Anytronics about it in the past and thy have indeed been very good. The problem is a known fault on its control card, but for various reasons (location and building wiring issues) this rack will be decommissioned as soon as our new LED kit is installed (should have happened 6 months ago but boring political reasons have got in the way). As a result, we haven't wanted to spend any money on it, and we've just coped with the occasional glitch, though it has been for much longer than we anticipated! After this latest incident though, it is essentially out of use from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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