Crash_Override Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hi, we will be hiring a company to renew speakers and cables in our theater. I would like your input on speakers location on stage. Then when they start making the project I can tell them where would be ideal location of speakers or argue with them about their placement plans. It's a small theater, stage net area is about 110m2. At the moment we have stage speakers only in the back wall of stage. To the FOH speakers and stage speakers have to be delayed? Stage plan: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rjeq02glyzt5vnh/teatriplaan.jpg?dl=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandall Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 You will probably get a different solution from everyone who replies, but the first question is, what sort of shows do you do? Speakers on the back wall are really only suitable for on-stage music & sound effects. As you have such a small stage this may be ok, but presumably restricts what scenery you can use without blocking the sound. The conventional solution for FoH in a venue this size is a full-range (12" or 15") speaker at each side of the proscenium arch, or above the arch if there is room. This would also allow you to use mics on stage. The 2 sets of speakers should never be playing the same sound, so no delays are needed. If you have live music you will also want at least 2 monitor wedges for performers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash_Override Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 I would say regular shows (I don't know if it correct use of words in English), no musicals. Visiting shows usually use the back wall also so that the actors could hear the music.I'm not concerned about FOH sound. FOH sound currently is like you describe. Auditorium/hall has only 216 seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandall Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 In that case I would suggest you replace the wall-speakers with 2 (or more) 10" or 12" portable speakers, fitted with 10m cables, that can plug into at 2 or 3 sockets on each side of stage. It wouldn't be worth delaying the FoH speakers, because for music your performers will be fairly close to both sets of speakers, & your audience will only hear the FoH ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash_Override Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Also what are your opinions on FOH PA. Couple of companies offered us line array systems. I think our auditorium is to small for that. We consider us a traditional theater. We don't have many events witch involve a live sound(2 or 3 in a year). Same goes for dance shows. They always want it to be more louder and so on. We have a small balcony in the auditorium. With full range speakers for FOH, isn't the low end a little weak? We would like a decent low end for theater shows also. At the same time when they are changing the speakers, they are installing a Digital Cinema projector with additional surround speakers etc. So FoH speakers would also be the L&R channels for cinema sound. This cinema project is only couple of times in month. If you want to laugh then our current FoH speakers are: 15 years old 2x EV P300Sx and 2x Zeck Vector T3A, same setup for stage back wall. (Both about 2,5m up on a wall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 The sheer expense of line array, vs what they do means that for many installations, they're hardly even working as a line away anyway. I've not worked with a theatre sound designer who goes with line arrays. They tend to use more conventional cabinets to direct the HF speech areas of the spectrum to where they're needed, and add some subs for when bottom end is important. It could be worth getting in a proper sound designer and getting them to look at what your situation is and advise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 In that case I would suggest you replace the wall-speakers with 2 (or more) 10" or 12" portable speakers, fitted with 10m cables, that can plug into at 2 or 3 sockets on each side of stage. It wouldn't be worth delaying the FoH speakers, because for music your performers will be fairly close to both sets of speakers, & your audience will only hear the FoH ones. The plan doesn't show speaker placement but if the back wall speakers are pointing at the audience as the OP implies they will most certainly hear them so, if they are carrying the same programme, say backing tracks for the cast singers, then I'd use a delay on the FOH. The plan looks as if the stage is around 15 metres deep so a delay of around 40ms will make a significant improvement in clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash_Override Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 At the moment stage back wall speakers are pointed at audience. As for subwoofer's. Their placement in FoH is tricky. We can't have them on the stage(We would lose side entrenches to stage in front. We can't have them on the floor (First row about 1,5m from stage). We can't have them under the stage (Made fully of concrete and only 0,4m high). Our options are to hang them on the wall, hang them from the sealing or but them facing the stage in weird location. Shown by red circle on this plan. All the walls are thick concrete or bricks. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ukvi5wvocl7qe8j/teatriplaan%20copy.jpg?dl=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I assume there are treads either side to get to the stage? Are these wooden, and could be removed , subs under, then rebuilt? Speakers facing the audience from the back wall has come up a few times recently. Why? It's the worst place as any scenery, cloths or screens will block them off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandall Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 The plan doesn't show speaker placement but if the back wall speakers are pointing at the audience as the OP implies they will most certainly hear them so, if they are carrying the same programme, say backing tracks for the cast singers, then I'd use a delay on the FOH. The plan looks as if the stage is around 15 metres deep so a delay of around 40ms will make a significant improvement in clarity. Agreed, delays might help if the existing stage speakers are carrying the same material, but I thought the point of the OP was to find an alternative to speakers on the back wall (hard to imagine anyone thinking they were a good idea in the first place). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 The plan doesn't show speaker placement but if the back wall speakers are pointing at the audience as the OP implies they will most certainly hear them so, if they are carrying the same programme, say backing tracks for the cast singers, then I'd use a delay on the FOH. The plan looks as if the stage is around 15 metres deep so a delay of around 40ms will make a significant improvement in clarity. Agreed, delays might help if the existing stage speakers are carrying the same material, but I thought the point of the OP was to find an alternative to speakers on the back wall (hard to imagine anyone thinking they were a good idea in the first place). Yes I didn't quite get that (lost in translation?) but I was thinking that a pair of 110 actives in the 'side fill' position over the steps might be a good option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrolytic Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 these speakers are on stage and are for the purpose of fold back, monitors for the people on stage to hear only? A speaker behind each side of the proscenium arch facing upstage. Do you have a false prosc to locate the speakers behind to not interfere with set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandall Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 these speakers are on stage and are for the purpose of fold back, monitors for the people on stage to hear only? A speaker behind each side of the proscenium arch facing upstage. Plus another pair (or long enough cables to re-position these ones) for side-fills or on-stage music & sfx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash_Override Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 The plan doesn't show speaker placement but if the back wall speakers are pointing at the audience as the OP implies they will most certainly hear them so, if they are carrying the same programme, say backing tracks for the cast singers, then I'd use a delay on the FOH. The plan looks as if the stage is around 15 metres deep so a delay of around 40ms will make a significant improvement in clarity.Agreed, delays might help if the existing stage speakers are carrying the same material, but I thought the point of the OP was to find an alternative to speakers on the back wall (hard to imagine anyone thinking they were a good idea in the first place). You are right. I'm looking for alternative (better) locations for the speakers. New plan with locations of the current speakers, also additional speakers on 15 years old plans. And the new positions of FoH, old location is interfering with side lights. https://www.dropbox.com/s/50kopubbiwza79n/teatriplaan%20copy2.jpg?dl=0 As for the subs under the stairs, I have to try and check if there is a concrete free area there. these speakers are on stage and are for the purpose of fold back, monitors for the people on stage to hear only?A speaker behind each side of the proscenium arch facing upstage.Do you have a false prosc to locate the speakers behind to not interfere with set? Mostly yes, so people can hear on stage. Some ocasyonal sfx for our shows. Nope, proscenium arch is thick concrete about 50cm. It would be ideal to have openings in there for speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash_Override Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 We need to make a public procurement ( I hope it's the right word, google translate gave it to me ) to buy the new stuff. They want some numbers in there. We need to give them minimum requirements of the system we would want. Like 100db for min SPL or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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