moving lights, how do they work?

[mr techie]

hi all,

once again im in need of your wisdom and guidance.

im looking into hiring moving heads for the venue I work at but dont know the first thing about them. I was hoping you could explain the set up power consumption etc etc. I know that not all moving heads are the same and have different features but any info would help. all I know is that they use lots of DMX channels? (is that right ) thank u all

cheers

 

mr technician

[gareth]

First off, they differ from conventional "steam" lights in that they don't plug into a dimmer - you run hard mains (permanently live) and a DMX512 data feed to each unit. (There are a small number of exceptions to this rule, like Pirouettes, VL 300-series and VL1000Ts, but it's unlikely that you'll encounter units like that on your first-ever outing with moving lights so I'll just concentrate on the more common scenario!) Unless you're hiring something beefy like a MAC2000, you can get a couple of units (more if they're particularly small) onto a standard 15A/16A feed, and the data daisy-chains from one unit to the next, with a terminator in the end unit in the line.

 

You're quite right that they use a lot of channels - some of the 'cheapo' disco moving lights from somewhere like Maplin might use perhaps half a dozen, whereas proper 'professional' moving lights might use anything from a dozen or so channels right up to 30-odd for something chunky like an X-spot. The way it works is that each unit has a start address, so that it knows which cluster of channels being output by the desk it has to listen to. So say a unit uses 12 channels, and has a start address of 25 - it will look at the DMX stream until it sees the data for channel 25 come along, then it grabs the values from channels 25 to 36 and maps those values onto its 12 functions. Then the next unit in the chain might have a start address of 37, and so on until all the units have been accounted for. In terms of setting up the units themselves, without going into any detail concerning the finer points of setting up specific types of head, that's about it.

 

The console end is a whole other bundle of fun. When you hire moving lights, I can't recommend strongly enough that you hire a decent console that's capable of driving them. If you're really on a tight budget you could use an 'ordinary' DMX console like a Sirius or a Strand 200 to do the job, but because these small desks simply aren't designed to deal with moving lights it would severely limit the programming you could do, and would seriously mess with your head ....

 

Far better to get something that is actually designed for programming movers, like a Fat Frog or a Hog500 or a Pearl to name but three of the smaller, lower-cost options. These deal with programming moving lights in a much more structured and defined way - that's to say, rather than having 12 adjacent faders on a desk operating 12 functions on a moving head, you tell the console "I have a Wobblybucket Turbo2000 with a start address of 1, and I want it to be fixture number 3 on the desk" and the console uses that patch information to deal with translating the instructions you enter into the console into a stream of DMX data to feed to the lights. Proper moving light consoles also have extremely user-friendly things like pages of rotary encoders for moving the lights around and changing their colour and gobos, 'palettes' that you can use to store colour and beam looks, etc.

 

It's a big subject, and a little post like this can't do it justice. The best thing might be to decide which heads and which console you're going to hire, then download the user manuals for both (manuals for most stuff can be had from the interweb) and take it from there.

[mr techie]

gareth,

I cant thank u enough for that reply its cleared alot of questions I had and u are right it is a big topic and I think one which takes along time to get right. I thank u again for the time u spent to right that detailed reply cheers!!!

I thought id let u know that it will be a strand gsx which I will have to use to programme the ml's and ive already been told its going to be a bugger to do it still its all fun ( he says) thanks again.

any other comments welcome.

cheers

mr technician

[gareth]

I thought id let u know that it will be a strand gsx which I will have to use to programme the ml's

{Sharp intake of breath ...}

 

I wish you luck - you'll need it. What a pity you can't find the funds to hire yourself a small but proper moving light controller - it would make your first experience of moving lights so much more enjoyable. And you know what they say about having a bad experience with your first time ... it can lead to all sorts of problems and hang-ups in later life ...

[Stu]

Even the most basic of ML desks such as the Fat Frog by Zero 88 doesn't cost too much (in the scheme of things) to hire - I've seen it for under £100 a week. A price well worth paying to keep your sanity going for another week, though I'm not the biggest fan of the Frog 1 range I have to admit I'd rather do it on one of them rather than a GSX.

 

But either way, good luck and have fun.

 

Stu

[danburns]

We have 2 MAC300s at my local amdram venue. They decided to buy a freekie controller for them and it is an absolute pig. I have already abandoned the joystick...

Saving shows - you can have 10 scenes in a show, but you can't q them - I don't want Q 2 a definate amount after Q1. I want to be abe to tell it myself. I am so tempted to connect it to our sirrus desk - even if I lose half the generic channels! At least it's predictable. On that note, does anybody know if you can program DMX channels into a chase that aren't assigned to a fader on a Sirrus 48? (Thinking I can prog the MLs on a chace, then change the DMX patch so our analogue faders won't affect them...don't think it'll work somehow though!)

 

Sorry if this is a bit but there ya go

 

Dan

[DSA]

On that note, does anybody know if you can program DMX channels into a chase that aren't assigned to a fader on a Sirrus 48? (Thinking I can prog the MLs on a chace, then change the DMX patch so our analogue faders won't affect them...don't think it'll work somehow though!)

Whilst it would be great if one could, as far as I know that is not possible. Shame.

 

David

[sam.henderson]

Hi,

 

Quite a broad question!! For things like finding out about power consumption and DMX channels etc. etc. that vary from fixture to fixture I would have a look at the manufactuers website of whatever ml's you choose or have a look at the The Moving Light Resource (however it is a bit old and you may not find all the modern fixtures there or cheaper disco makes).

 

Some other things to think about will be:

 

-Control; Just to back what everybody else has said, the strand gsx is going to be a nightmare for mls!! Fat Frogs are good for a few moving lights and all the others listed.

 

-What do you need from the fixtures; This will help you select which type of fixture you need. In the simpilist terms there are two types of Moving Heads, Spots/ Profiles or Washes. Obviously with spots you can do stuff like Gobo's etc. and a wash light does what it says on the tin.

 

-Do you need them; Obvious question you may think but are you sourcing them becuase you really need them or could the job be done more easily, quickly and more hassle-free with a couple of source 4's??

 

If you can give us some more info into exactly what sort of fixtures you are looking at and what they are needed for we may be able to give more help.

 

Sam

[mr techie]

at the moment im not looking for perticular types for shows. I just wanted to get a bit of background info on them and how they work.

the repplies so far have been really helpful cheers, another query,

how do you find your limit to the amount of heads u can use as they dont use your regular dimmers are there built in DMX channels on the lx board to cater for ml's ??? I know on our gsx it has the channels which go to dimmers in the patch screen them it has another 250 channels which show up in purple writing are these what the ml's are assigned to ???

I know im a pain but asking u very inteligent people is easier than ringing a tech company who pass you to and from people.

thanks again in advance

 

mr technician

:unsure:

[Potassium Neuf]

Fat Frog - Up to 12 moving light fixtures (max 288 channels)

 

Leap Frog - Up to 24 moving light fixtures (max 512 channels)

 

Bull Frog - Up to 24 moving light fixtures (max 1024 channels)

 

Mambo Frog - Up to 96 moving light fixtures (max 1024 channels)

[paulears]

My main venue has a GSX. I know people hate them, but we like it. Any attempt, however, to use it to control moving lights is just an accident waiting to happen. Daft things like you can't use the grand master unless you assign sub channels as independants to work the movers and then you run out of subs. Small things such as a gentle knock of the fader suddenly shoot the light off in unpredicable directions and even with moving light settings stored in a cue, you can't then do a cross fade. The list goes on. Many things can be bodged with clever settings and macros - but it is FAR easier to just get a desk in like Gareth says.

 

As a GSX lover - don't do it - you'll end up hating them.

Paul

[mr techie]

My main venue has a GSX. I know people hate them, but we like it.

 

I know wot u mean I love the gsx ive been working with it for 5 years now and have got really gd with it.

unfortunatley we have had a few problems with it recently so we sent it to northern stage for a service now there telling us that they will have to send it to strand manufacturers to be serviced I hope nothing serious is wrong as they were discontinued 4-5 years ago so u cant get the parts, on the bright side this would meen a new lighting board for the theatre wooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

:unsure: anyone know how much a new strand 520i would go for ???

[Stu]

:unsure:  anyone know how much a new strand 520i would go for ???

About £7.5k - 8.5k +VAT for the 250 channel version.

 

Stu

[the kid]

Before just posting I did my research on the X-spot complete with 38 channels. *gasp* is it possible to get more on a fixture and what could you have? Would this lead to bigger universes or desks having to cope with more?

 

Back to the X-spot http://www.highend.com/pdfs/products/xspot.../XtremeTech.pdf has a list of all the functions but why is there "gobo 1 rotate function " then "gobo 1 rotate low"?

[SceneMaster]

Would this lead to bigger universes or desks having to cope with more? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You can’t have bigger universes… just more of them… 512 channels is the max one universe of DMX can send as this is the max rate of something… well I don’t know something to do with computer technology, maybe someone could explain…