Best Possible System, For Solo Artist

[blackbeast250]

Hi , Robin here new to the forum,

Would anyone have an idea as to where I could get information, paid or otherwise, as to what the very best system, and I mean from power amps - equalisers - effects - desk - speaker system, for a solo acoustic guitarist/singer doing venues of up to 600 people and needing very high volume but also excellent quality sound, Something that would simply blow you away.

Hope someone can help

Cheers, Robin

 

 

Moderation: No need to shout and duplicate post removed

[3guk]

Is money a limiting factor ??

 

What sort of venue ? Indoor Outdoor ?

 

Are you going to have somebody operating the sound or does it have to work by its self straight outa the box.

 

I dont really think there is a best as such, there are some very nice systems that you can get and the word best sort of looses its defintion. Will the speakers be used anywhere else.

[IanG]

I think companies like Stage Electrics, Wigwam, SSE Hire and Canegreen should be able to provide some professional advice, and have strong reputations behind them.

[3guk]

I find the best way to find the perfect system is to go and demo the various options. I know im getting a bit ahead of the question but once you have a few reccomendations go and listen to them !!

 

Your idea of best and clear sound could be completly different to someone elses.

[Bobbsy]

The best system isn't a single source system at all...it's a collection of top quality individual items and the choice of which is best for your needs depends quite a lot on a lot more detail of what you do.

 

"Blow you away" quality doesn't come cheap though, whatever you choose. Think of a number then add a zero or two.

 

Bob

[paulears]

Robin,

give us an example of a set list and what instrument s/he plays - acoustic, electro etc

Then we'll all give you wildly different advice. Seriously, this will almost certainly generate some good advice.

paul

[blackbeast250]

hi folks , thanks for all the replies, to answer the questions , money would be a limiting factor over 15,000 euro, I play a solid acoustic guitar built by chris larkin of chris larkin guitars , fitted with rmc transducers and a midi polydrive unit , compatible with all roland and axon synth gear , I also sing , mainly folk stuff I do the christy moore tribute show (christy is a well known irish folk singer ) stuff like " black is the colour of my true loves hair " ewan mcoll stuff , also the usual bit of johnny cash , things like that.

the gear I use at the moment is quite good it consists of , 2 bose 502 bins , 2 hk audio vt112 tops , 2 hk audio, 2400 power amps , a rane me60 dual 31 band graphic, a dbx dual channel compressor , a yamaha spx990, an alesis midiverb 4 , and a quadraverb.

I run the guitar into a fishman platinum pro eq , and into a channell in the desk which is a midas venice (the smallest one) I run the compressor and eq in paralell into the channel inserts of the vocal and guitar respectivly. the vocal mic is a choice of a senheiser evolution(forget the model no) a shure beta 57 , and a jts beta 57 copy.

this sounds impressive in theory but in reality it sounds #### , now dont get me wrong it doesnt sound terrible and at times it can sound fantastic , I dont have a sound person , I keep all the stuff in one rack beside me, maby I am doing something wrong.

the type of venues would be mainly pubs , hotels and such like, I mean what is really getting to me is that the rmc pick ups are about the best you can get , I would have thought the sound would have been fantastic (blown me away as I said) .

I have a fair knowledge of how to operate this stuff , but only from picking up bits here and bits there, I have also wasted money on gear that I did not need and did not do what I thought it would , but I would literally re mortgage the house if I thought I was really going to get the sound I want ,.

so to answer the final question , what sort of sound do I want , well I want to sound

lthat has crystal clear clarity , and definition in the vocals , while maintaing punchy low end , and a guitar sound that will be almost like stereo with the same clarity and crispness , and also a punchy low end that never distorts , in other words I want to sound as good as I possibly can ,I belive when you begin amplifying your music , the gear becomes your instrument , and punters dont make distinctions, if it sounds bad they dont say it sounds bad they say you are bad ,.

I hope this gives a clearer view of what im after , thanks again folks.

Robin :unsure:

[bruce]

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this sounds impressive in theory but in reality it sounds  #### , now dont get me wrong it doesnt sound terrible  and at times it can sound fantastic , I dont have  a sound person , I keep all the stuff in one rack beside me, maby I am doing something  wrong.

.

.

 

I have  a fair knowledge of how to operate this stuff , but only from picking up bits here and bits there, I have also wasted money on gear that I did not need and did not do what I thought  it would , but I would literally re mortgage the house if I thought I was really going to get the sound I want

 

Rather than immediately spending more money on "the best" gear based on recommendations of people who have never heard you, how about getting a good engineer to mix one of your shows using your existing gear, and leaving you to concentrate on making the music.

 

It may be that all that is required is a few tweaks to some settings, but it's very difficult to know exactly what the sound is like from the audiences point-of-view when you're onstage yourself.

 

Bruce.

[TeeJay]

I get the idea you almost need to come to an agreement with a supply company that you will spend at least £xxxxx money with them but keep taking different pieces of kit on a trial basis.

Like hire-purchase on a sound system but the components may differ from the original line up.

I doubt such a purchase plan exists though.

 

I'm just going to come out with a list of alternative products to those you've listed which have been specced recently by incoming companies. They are all what I would consider to be quality products that may be pricey but aren't stupidly so.

 

Speakers - d&b 1220s, E9s and C6 with C6subs and B1s , Nexo PS10 and PS15, Meyer MSL4, UPA and UPM

Amps - E-PAC or P1200 for d&B, Crown,

Outboard - BSS FCS 960 or Klark Teknik DN360 graphics; XTA C2, BSS DPR404 or dbx 160 compressers; TC M3000 or Lexicon PCM 70(or 80 or 90) effects; Avalon 737 valve pre-amp/comp

Mics - Shure Beta 58 and Beta 87, DPA 4061 and 4066 on vocals, Neuman KM184, Shure Beta 57 and DPA 4061 on guitars with BSS active D.I.s

 

This is just a selection taken from the incoming lists but is fairly indicative.

 

Don't forget to check that all your leads and cables are of a decent quality - obvious I know but sometimes with all the bells and whistles we can forget the simple things

 

Hope this is of some help.

 

I'll second what Bruce has said. Having just done what I said not three lines ago :unsure:

Also if you have someone who plays a similar style to you, let them play and you listen, ideally in a situation where you can just have a mess around with the kit and confirm exactly how each piece of equipment is colouring the sound

[bruce]

Also if you have someone who plays a similar style to you, let them play and you listen, ideally in a situation where you can just have a mess around with the kit and confirm exactly how each piece of equipment is colouring the sound

 

That's a really good idea.

 

I play in a band. But even playing solo, with no amplification or electronics, I used to get really fed up cos just about everyone else I listened to had a better "sound" than me. Nothing to do with the quality of playing - I just assumed they had better instruments. This really p***ed me off, because I had just spent about 3k on an instrument, and to my ear it was the best-sounding one in the shop. Yet everyone elses sounded better - they had a much "fatter", more balanced sound - even the cheapie ones.

 

So we started swapping instruments. And I discovered that when I played the other gear I didn't sound as good as anyone else playing it. And other people playing my gear sounded better than me....

 

And that's when I realised that certain instruments - acoustic instruments in particular - don't sound particularly good from the playing position. By accident or design, they sound better from the audience position, a few yards away, than they do close up. It's all to do with acoustics, and (natural) reverb, and balance, and that sort of stuff....

 

Bruce.

[paulears]

Bruce hit the snag square on! The kit list , frankly, is over the top for hotels and pubs. Your stage location is not letting you hear what the punters do, and I really question the need for the subs - with just you and the guitar - where is the bass the subs are there to produce. Unless you're using the midi kit to add in bottom - octave shifted bass from the bottom string??, there just isn't much down there. Have you tried it without them - HK tops usually go down low enough.

 

The idea of getting someone to mix makes huges sense - and will be cheaper than buying more gear and a bigger truck!

 

I notice you don't have any monitors in the kit list - if you're relying on the house system for monitoring, you're almost certainly eq'ing the sh*t out of the main sound so it sounds ok to you - but probably poo from the audience.

 

I know you want to do it all yourself - but it really needs a second set of ears to make it work. I'd bet that your system really can make you sound like you are imagining - it's just that when set up like that, to you in your playing position it'll sound very poor. Have you tried listening on headphones to what your mix sounds like?

 

If you really want to work alone, then what I suggest you do is record your voice, using your chosen mic on the left channel of a cd/md, and your guitar on the right. Play these back for a sound check, while you wander around the room - then you can set eq properly on your own voice/guitar playing. Then when you replace the cd/md with the real you and similar eq - you should at least be close. Add a monitor with adjustable eq to suit your playing position and you'll be pretty close to done.

 

My best guess is - dump the subs, add at least one monitor or in-ears, and get someone to mix for you

 

as for this list....

Speakers - d&b 1220s, E9s and C6 with C6subs and B1s , Nexo PS10 and PS15, Meyer MSL4, UPA and UPM

Amps - E-PAC or P1200 for d&B, Crown,

Outboard - BSS FCS 960 or Klark Teknik DN360 graphics; XTA C2, BSS DPR404 or dbx 160 compressers; TC M3000 or Lexicon PCM 70(or 80 or 90) effects; Avalon 737 valve pre-amp/comp

Mics - Shure Beta 58 and Beta 87, DPA 4061 and 4066 on vocals, Neuman KM184, Shure Beta 57 and DPA 4061 on guitars with BSS active D.I.s

 

Smashing kit - but a bit over the top for a single performer in a pub/hotel. The hire charges would come to more than the gig pays I'd guess, let alone financing it to buy.

[blackbeast250]

Hi , Robin here again, I forgot to say that I do use in ear monitoring( really just the right side of a pair of sony clip on headphones through the monitor bus using the solo switches on the desk) this works fine as I am near the desk.

thanks to everybody for the advice, I think I am going to make a few purchaces , starting with the klark teknik dn360, which brings me to another question.

I bought a book / dvd recently , by scott hunter stark , entitled "live sound reinforcement" and the demo section on the dvd of the tuning of the pa , had the 31 band graphic on the main inserts eqing both sides of it the same , and then making the final adjustments to the instruments using the mixer eqs etc.

I on the other hand have my 31 band graphic inserted into two channels one for guitar and one for vocal , and what I do is I eq one at a time by positioning the speakers where they are going to be , and turning up the mic until it feeds back and then cutting that frequency , and repeating this several times , and then doing the same with the guitar. does anyone have an opinion on this , is it right or wrong , or is there a right or wrong?

the other question I have , which has been burning a hole in my head for some years now , until I found this forum is this , and it is regarding , effects units compressors etc , basically any unit with adjustable parameters, for my own purpouses , the yamaha spx990 , the alesis midiverb4 , and the dbx dual channel compressor.

now obviously there are people out there "EXPERTS" who really know how to make these pieces of machinary sing , and to the likes of myself who wouldnt know a lo cut diffusion if it came up and bit me on the @@@ , it would be very handy to have a forum somewhere on the net , where the parameter settings for some killer effects were posted , even if you had to pay a small fee for them .

does anyone know of such a forum and where it might be found , or does anyone have any settings for these machines. also if there is anything I can do to help anyone out , dont hesitate to ask . thanks again folks .

Robin. :D

[IanG]

I on the other hand have my 31 band graphic  inserted into two channels one for guitar and one for vocal , and what I do is I eq one at a time  by positioning the speakers where they are going to be  , and turning up the mic until it feeds back and then cutting that frequency , and repeating this several times , and then doing the same with the guitar.  does anyone have an opinion on this , is it right or wrong , or is there a right or wrong?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Firstly, as you suggest: there is no right and wrong.

 

But, in general, graphic EQ on a FOH system is there for adjusting the response of the system to make it sound good in the audience area, not for increasing the gain before feedback on stage. Your method would work well for monitors (although with the EQ inserted in the monitor sends and not the channels) and may have some merit FOH (as you'll certainly remove some peaks in the room/system response which would colour the sound) but the FOH EQ would be much better employed as a 'system tweaking' device rather than a 'feedback reduction' device in my opinion.

 

The general concept is: EQ monitors for maximum gain before feedback. EQ FOH for smooth and even system response. If after this you're having problems with feedback caused by the FOH system, you could add a well-tuned parametric EQ, but use sparingly.