GrandMA1 Full-Size or GrandMA2 Ultra Light

[yanksrule0422]

Hi,

 

So as stated in the title, I have the choice between the MA1 full size console or the MA2 ultra light console. The MA1 is less expensive than the MA2.

 

Which one would be more worth it?? I've never programmed on an MA2, only the MA1. Is the learning curve large?? I know the MA2 is an industry standard nowadays but given the two options, what would be the smartest way to go about it?

[Don Allen]

How easy is it to go beyond RGB on the GrandMA1 desk ?

[yanksrule0422]

How easy is it to go beyond RGB on the GrandMA1 desk ?

 

What do you mean by "go beyond RGB"??

[david.elsbury]

Presumably fixtures with more colour parameters e.g RGBA , RGBAW, RGBWAUV

[yanksrule0422]

Presumably fixtures with more colour parameters e.g RGBA , RGBAW, RGBWAUV

 

To be honest, I have no idea. I haven't had any fixtures are any more complex than RGB

[Stee_cri1]

Hi There. Personally I would go for the MA2.

Fixture personalities are no longer being written for the MA1 software so it will become incredibly tiresome having to make your own, if not now eventually.

The MA2 software is so much better than that of the MA1 it is more intuitive and just with the times I guess is the best way to describe it. It just makes sense.

 

For me the only downside would be the lack of screens - but I guess the easy get around is to press a couple more buttons :-)

 

With regards to learning curve while to software is different it makes sense so if you can use MA1 its not that bad - and once you get your head around it you'll be like 'MA1 what'??

[mac.calder]

More info would be good about purpose...

 

Do you need many faders? IIRC the ultralight does not have motorised faders - which is a pain if you often need more than 15.

 

Busking or cue lists?

 

Your own rig or hire rigs?

 

Do you have many "composite" fixtures (media servers, LED battens with multiple sets of RGB parameters etc)

 

Personally, I would not even consider an ultralight to purchase - I think it is overpriced for what it is. You could do onPC with command & fader wings and a pc with 2 touch screen monitors for less with very similar functionality and considerable desk space saving.

 

If it was your rig, < 8 universes and you were the only operator and there was a chance you needed lots of faders for busking, I would go the 1 over the ultralight 2 - unless you have to work with really complex fixtures like some of the new LED heads with tonnes of RGB parameter sets. I consider the 1 Full size and 2 Light to be on par with each other - if I had a request for one of them on a rider and only had the other I would not feel bad offering it as a suggestion. The 2 Full size is a leap up, and the ultralight 2 is just in that awkward space that I just don't rate (like the Ultralight, Micro and Pico of the MA1 range) - I would perhaps consider it as a backup console to run side by side, or as the onstage 'remote' console as it is considerably cheaper than the light and fullsize - but it would never be my show op console.

[top-cat]

Do you need many faders? IIRC the ultralight does not have motorised faders - which is a pain if you often need more than 15.

 

It does have 2 motorised faders.... but yes the rest are not.

 

Busking or cue lists?

 

Your own rig or hire rigs?

 

How do these change it?

 

Personally, I would not even consider an ultralight to purchase - I think it is overpriced for what it is. You could do onPC with command & fader wings and a pc with 2 touch screen monitors for less with very similar functionality and considerable desk space saving.

 

I sort of agree and sort of don't. The Ultralight is a funny thing indeed, the loss of motorised faders and the extra screen is a noticeable loss. But you can live without it, providing you are cool with external monitors being in your setup. I don't think you can compare it to onPC though... in terms of functionality, one of the big things you lose when using onPC is parameters. 4096 is the max, regardless of what hardware you add. But the Ultralight is a console so, with the addition of NPUs, you can get a limitless parameter count.

 

The MA onPC hardware is of inferior construction to the consoles and more difficult to repair.

 

The Ultralight also features the programming monitor above the encoders, which the PC version does not offer.

 

If it was your rig, < 8 universes and you were the only operator and there was a chance you needed lots of faders for busking, I would go the 1 over the ultralight 2 - unless you have to work with really complex fixtures like some of the new LED heads with tonnes of RGB parameter sets. I consider the 1 Full size and 2 Light to be on par with each other - if I had a request for one of them on a rider and only had the other I would not feel bad offering it as a suggestion. The 2 Full size is a leap up, and the ultralight 2 is just in that awkward space that I just don't rate (like the Ultralight, Micro and Pico of the MA1 range) - I would perhaps consider it as a backup console to run side by side, or as the onstage 'remote' console as it is considerably cheaper than the light and fullsize - but it would never be my show op console.

 

I really would not consider the MA1 Full Size to be 'on par' with the MA2 Light. If that's what you think, I think you may have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the products are. MA2 is a new operating system with new capabilities. It is still being supported and developed by the manufacturer and constantly improved. MA1 is at a standstill and going nowhere further. Personalities can be found on ma-share but are not official and cannot be guaranteed by MA. The full size is not really a 'leap up' at all... it offers no operational benefits over the Light except more screens and more faders. The OS still does the same thing.

 

If saving some more money and buying an MA2 Light is an option, I would do that. But I would be hesitant about spending that much money buying a console which has been obsolete for several years already, and be much more supportive of buying the Ultralight, even if in some ways it is less capable than what can be had in MA1 terms for the same price.

[david.elsbury]

Christ, got an opinion on everything, don't you, TS? :) I'd say that Mac considers the 1 full size and the 2 light in terms of handles and ease of use.

 

Regarding the question "how do these change it" for your own rig or someone else's, I'd say thats pretty obvious (and as such a clever touring guy I'm surprised you didn't think of it) ... if the desk is sitting in a venue with the same rig day in day out, it's a case of loading fixture files once and being done with it. If there are different rigs every day of the week with different fixtures it might be hard/impossible to get those fixtures for the MA1 which means time (money) spent to get them going. In that instance a MA2 might be an appropriate recommendation.

[mac.calder]

 

Busking or cue lists?

 

Your own rig or hire rigs?

 

How do these change it?

 

If you are programming a theatrical show with cue lists, chances are the loss of motorised faders won't hit you too hard - especially with executor buttons - pre-programmed cue list operation tends to be less focused on the need for faders when compared to busking. Your own rig - well then it all comes down to comfort of operation - you know what your rig is and most likely how you plan to further develop it - If you only own Mac700 spots and washes, some dimmers and some LED cans, rarely hire in fixtures and are not planning any hugely complex fixtures being added to your inventory (or you have a head on your shoulders and are willing to make any fixture profiles for new fixtures you purchase), and the desks are both capable of operating what you have... comfort is all that is left. I am normally against recommending 'obsolete' hardware, but I do think the Ultralight is overpriced and a poor way to go. The ugly duckling of the 2 range if you will.

 

Personally, I would not even consider an ultralight to purchase - I think it is overpriced for what it is. You could do onPC with command & fader wings and a pc with 2 touch screen monitors for less with very similar functionality and considerable desk space saving.

 

I sort of agree and sort of don't. The Ultralight is a funny thing indeed, the loss of motorised faders and the extra screen is a noticeable loss. But you can live without it, providing you are cool with external monitors being in your setup. I don't think you can compare it to onPC though... in terms of functionality, one of the big things you lose when using onPC is parameters. 4096 is the max, regardless of what hardware you add. But the Ultralight is a console so, with the addition of NPUs, you can get a limitless parameter count.

 

True to a point... with the exception of large numbers of composite LED fixtures though, a standard rig with over 8 universes of fixtures (if you are using 'standard' fixtures, you are probably looking at at least 9 universes when all your 16 bit parameters are taken into account) is fairly rare until you get to a certain level of event - the sort where even if you bring your own desk, you will be wanting your hire company to provide a backup and probably some distribution. I certainly know I would not want to be operating that size show on an ultralight.

 

The MA onPC hardware is of inferior construction to the consoles and more difficult to repair.

 

The Ultralight also features the programming monitor above the encoders, which the PC version does not offer.

 

The programming monitor is nice... but it's not $12,000 worth of functionality - which is approximately the price difference between a fully kitted out onPC configuration with 2 monitors and an ultralight

 

If it was your rig, < 8 universes and you were the only operator and there was a chance you needed lots of faders for busking, I would go the 1 over the ultralight 2 - unless you have to work with really complex fixtures like some of the new LED heads with tonnes of RGB parameter sets. I consider the 1 Full size and 2 Light to be on par with each other - if I had a request for one of them on a rider and only had the other I would not feel bad offering it as a suggestion. The 2 Full size is a leap up, and the ultralight 2 is just in that awkward space that I just don't rate (like the Ultralight, Micro and Pico of the MA1 range) - I would perhaps consider it as a backup console to run side by side, or as the onstage 'remote' console as it is considerably cheaper than the light and fullsize - but it would never be my show op console.

 

I really would not consider the MA1 Full Size to be 'on par' with the MA2 Light. If that's what you think, I think you may have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the products are. MA2 is a new operating system with new capabilities. It is still being supported and developed by the manufacturer and constantly improved. MA1 is at a standstill and going nowhere further. Personalities can be found on ma-share but are not official and cannot be guaranteed by MA. The full size is not really a 'leap up' at all... it offers no operational benefits over the Light except more screens and more faders. The OS still does the same thing.

 

If saving some more money and buying an MA2 Light is an option, I would do that. But I would be hesitant about spending that much money buying a console which has been obsolete for several years already, and be much more supportive of buying the Ultralight, even if in some ways it is less capable than what can be had in MA1 terms for the same price.

 

I am extremely familiar with both MA1 and 2 software - I was using the 2 back in the days where 2 software was in beta so MA advised us to boot into MA1 mode if we were doing any critical shows. From an operational point of view, screen real estate and fader wise 1 full size and 2 light are on the same plane. 2 full size is much screen space (especially when fully decked out) and the potential for more faders than you can poke a stick at (IIRC fully expanded is around 90 motorised faders). Perhaps leap was the wrong term, I should have used "step".

There is no doubt there are some fantastic new features that make the MA2 a really awesome desk. I posit however that less than half the users really use any of the additional functionality - and that if you have a rig with 'standard' fixtures (ie not composite fixtures like the B.Eyes, a media server or 2, no huge arrays of fixtures) you will not be hard pressed on either operating system and that the fullsize is a far more comfortable desk to use than the ultralight.

[top-cat]

Busking or cue lists?

 

Your own rig or hire rigs?

 

How do these change it?

 

If you are programming a theatrical show with cue lists, chances are the loss of motorised faders won't hit you too hard - especially with executor buttons - pre-programmed cue list operation tends to be less focused on the need for faders when compared to busking. Your own rig - well then it all comes down to comfort of operation - you know what your rig is and most likely how you plan to further develop it - If you only own Mac700 spots and washes, some dimmers and some LED cans, rarely hire in fixtures and are not planning any hugely complex fixtures being added to your inventory (or you have a head on your shoulders and are willing to make any fixture profiles for new fixtures you purchase), and the desks are both capable of operating what you have... comfort is all that is left. I am normally against recommending 'obsolete' hardware, but I do think the Ultralight is overpriced and a poor way to go. The ugly duckling of the 2 range if you will.

 

I have busked big shows on an onPC fader wing... 15x non motorised faders... no problem. Bear in mind plenty of people busk big shows on things like the Chamsys MQ100 which gives you only 10.

 

The MA onPC hardware is of inferior construction to the consoles and more difficult to repair.

 

The Ultralight also features the programming monitor above the encoders, which the PC version does not offer.

 

The programming monitor is nice... but it's not $12,000 worth of functionality - which is approximately the price difference between a fully kitted out onPC configuration with 2 monitors and an ultralight

 

Functionality alone, no.

 

But it's more than that - it's the build quality, the fact that many people will still not accept PC-based systems on riders etc, etc.

 

I do think there is good value in the onPC system and you have to remember that the Command Wing / Fader Wing were not about when the Ultralight first came out.

 

I am extremely familiar with both MA1 and 2 software - I was using the 2 back in the days where 2 software was in beta so MA advised us to boot into MA1 mode if we were doing any critical shows. From an operational point of view, screen real estate and fader wise 1 full size and 2 light are on the same plane. 2 full size is much screen space (especially when fully decked out) and the potential for more faders than you can poke a stick at (IIRC fully expanded is around 90 motorised faders). Perhaps leap was the wrong term, I should have used "step".

There is no doubt there are some fantastic new features that make the MA2 a really awesome desk. I posit however that less than half the users really use any of the additional functionality - and that if you have a rig with 'standard' fixtures (ie not composite fixtures like the B.Eyes, a media server or 2, no huge arrays of fixtures) you will not be hard pressed on either operating system and that the fullsize is a far more comfortable desk to use than the ultralight.

 

If nothing else then, you just have to decide whether you really want to be spending that much money on completely obsolete hardware. It does still do the job, but the product support, the updates, personalities, etc etc are just not developed like they are for MA2. Learning the MA2 software to a high standard will do favours if looking to upgrade within the MA2 platform in the future too.

 

If the onPC hardware was better quality... I would recommend it in a heartbeat for use where you do not have to be rider friendly etc. I used a PC based system for a year on a large-ish show (3500 params ish) and had no major issues and I do think that teamed up with one or 2 decent touch screen computers, and some MA nodes, you can create a far more powerful system than the Ultralight offers, for the same price.

 

But I just would not recommend people buy the MA1 anymore except people who already have them. I just don't think buying into the company's old product - when the new one is available and in your price bracket - is a sensible option.