gibbothegreat Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 https://www.sweeney-kincaid.com/Sales/CatalogLots.aspx?SaleId=2460 believed to be Northern Light having a clear out. lots of the usual suspects, and a couple of intriguing items in there... not necessarily what you'd normally think of as professional gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart91 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Bear in mind that the auctioneers add a 15% "buyer's premium", and then apply VAT to that total. So if you make a bid of £100, you end up paying £138. It's easy to get carried away. Also the fact that NL (if it is indeed them) are selling this kit via an intermediary rather than on their own account, might be a bit of a hint as to the condition it is in. There is no comeback at all in these auctions. The model is very much that they expect you to have satisfied yourself that the lot is fit for purpose before bidding. I was at one auction in person where someone who had bid a non-trivial amount for a boxed copy of Photoshop, discovered that he had in fact won an empty box. He was not happy but the auctioneer essentially laughed in his face and asked why he hadn't checked it before bidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskers Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 SK have sold for NL before But NL is Stage Electrics now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I was at one auction in person where someone who had bid a non-trivial amount for a boxed copy of Photoshop, discovered that he had in fact won an empty box. He was not happy but the auctioneer essentially laughed in his face and asked why he hadn't checked it before bidding. A bit like those ebay auctions for newly released games consoles, where they are actually bidding on a picture of said console... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portytech Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 SK have sold for NL before But NL is Stage Electrics now Maby but the vans and warehouse still wear NL Signs. And AFAIK they still trade as NL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibbothegreat Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Confirmed as NL Productions Porty is correct, SE have stated that they intend to keep it trading under the NL brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I was at one auction in person where someone who had bid a non-trivial amount for a boxed copy of Photoshop, discovered that he had in fact won an empty box. He was not happy but the auctioneer essentially laughed in his face and asked why he hadn't checked it before bidding. A bit like those ebay auctions for newly released games consoles, where they are actually bidding on a picture of said console...And in BOTH cases, unless the auction lot description SPECIFICALLY STATED that the item was an empty box or photograph, then the seller can be deemed as misrepresenting the facts, and the sale would be null and void. In the case of Fleabay, a fast reaction via their report system will hold up the actual payment via Paypal. As for any registered auction house, a call to trading standards would definitely be in order. Of course, if the description DID state what they were, it gets a little more tricky, although misrepresentation could still be argued if this was in tiny print or hidden in a large block of text which might be deemd as an attempt to mislead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I think the famous one was the X box box. Which was of course just a box that previously contained an x box. Accurate: yes. Misleading: probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_L Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Respectfully, no. That's not quite how the law of misrepresentation works. Clearly the outcome would on the wording of any description (and the auctioneers terms), but I'm not quite sure the position would be as equivocal as you suggest it is... Picture of a box? Given the opportunity to inspect? Where's the misrep... I was at one auction in person where someone who had bid a non-trivial amount for a boxed copy of Photoshop, discovered that he had in fact won an empty box. He was not happy but the auctioneer essentially laughed in his face and asked why he hadn't checked it before bidding. A bit like those ebay auctions for newly released games consoles, where they are actually bidding on a picture of said console...And in BOTH cases, unless the auction lot description SPECIFICALLY STATED that the item was an empty box or photograph, then the seller can be deemed as misrepresenting the facts, and the sale would be null and void. In the case of Fleabay, a fast reaction via their report system will hold up the actual payment via Paypal. As for any registered auction house, a call to trading standards would definitely be in order. Of course, if the description DID state what they were, it gets a little more tricky, although misrepresentation could still be argued if this was in tiny print or hidden in a large block of text which might be deemd as an attempt to mislead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Respectfully, no. That's not quite how the law of misrepresentation works. Clearly the outcome would on the wording of any description (and the auctioneers terms), but I'm not quite sure the position would be as equivocal as you suggest it is... Picture of a box? Given the opportunity to inspect? Where's the misrep... Hmmm... If the item description said "X-Box" then the item on sale should by definition BE an X-Box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin D Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 An interesting one this. I wonder if 'The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008' would apply. If you look up the regulations, and go it 'Interpretation' you find. “commercial practice” means any act, omission, course of conduct, representation or commercial communication (including advertising and marketing) by a trader, which is directly connected with the promotion, sale or supply of a product to or from consumers, whether occurring before, during or after a commercial transaction (if any) in relation to a product;“consumer” means any individual who in relation to a commercial practice is acting for purposes which are outside his business;“invitation to purchase” means a commercial communication which indicates characteristics of the product and the price in a way appropriate to the means of that commercial communication and thereby enables the consumer to make a purchase;“materially distort the economic behaviour” means in relation to an average consumer, appreciably to impair the average consumer’s ability to make an informed decision thereby causing him to take a transactional decision that he would not have taken otherwise;“trader” means any person who in relation to a commercial practice is acting for purposes relating to his business, and anyone acting in the name of or on behalf of a trader; I cannot find anything in there that exempts auction houses, and even if it in their terms try to. If the 'consumer' is likely to be misled, it would appear to be illegal. NB: I am not a lawyer, but as part of my day job I have to be aware of these regulations. The above is but a tiny subset of the regulations, but the basic principle of the legislation was that a trade cannot do anything that is likely to mislead a consume into making a purchase he otherwise would not have made. The emphasis throughout is on the 'likely to mislead'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart91 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I appreciate that consumer legislation is quite strong in this area, but what about business to business sales? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 The law is quite clear that the sort of kit we are talking about here (and the selling company & the auctioneers) all mean this is definitely NOT a consumer transaction but instead classes as a business to business transaction (even if you're buying as an individual) so all the consumer laws are irrelevant and it's essentially up to the buyer to ensure they know what they are getting and that it is fit for the purposes they intend. If the auctioneer expressly states "lighting desk, tested and working" and after you buy it it doesn't work then you've got a valid grievance. If the auction just says "lighting desk" and has a picture then you should assume it doesn't work, doesn't have anything inside it and either specifically ask the question to the auction house or attend the viewings in order to undertake your own test/inspection as to what condition it's in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin D Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 B2B is generally contract law unless its a transaction in an area 'outside the business' and its made by an individual. No test cases here, but one advisor we had in when the new regulations came into effect said that if you as a manager of a clothing shop asked someone to provide an electric fan heater, and it didn't work, ten consumer regs would apply even if the sale was made out to Ted's clothing. He argued that even if it wasn't clear cut would you want to be the first test case with all the associated negative publicity. The press are of course experts in interpreting statutes, and never misrepresent a position to create a headline!!!! Contract law includes the Misrepresentation Act 1967 and there is a huge amount of case law and companies spend very large amounts of money on attempting to prove their legal position. If you need more help on that, its not my field at all so best speak to a solicitor specialising in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Whatever the logistics I must confess to being amused by the fact that the auctioneers clearly took NO advice or proof reading from anyone regarding some of their descriptions... "Chroma Stroller" "Strand Cortet iris" "Thron fluorescent fitting" "3 x 65ft x 3ft Stage Flats (Pallet) " (would need a frickin' big pallet!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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