Comms

[JTilling]

Hi.

I am part of a small amateur dramatics group. We usually put on 2 to 3 shows a year which very in size and complexity but they are gradually growing and becoming more professional. Less panto's more serious plays.

We are currently looking into Comm's for our next show. I am unsure of what to go for at the moment, Ideally we would like wireless comms (motorola style) with a headset and ptt mics. We would only be looking for around 6 of these and possibly one would need to connect to a speaker in the main dressing room for calling actors.

I am not sure if it is better to rent or to buy but either way I'm not sure what exactly I should go for. Any help would be great. Our budget it as low as possible. For this show I have possibly £200 at a push. We are putting on 3 nights plus a full dress rehearsal so would need them for 4 nights in total although I would like to have them for a week to be sure I have time to collect and return if I'm renting.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

JT

[jmdh]

Hi.

I am part of a small amateur dramatics group. We usually put on 2 to 3 shows a year which very in size and complexity but they are gradually growing and becoming more professional. Less panto's more serious plays.

We are currently looking into Comm's for our next show. I am unsure of what to go for at the moment, Ideally we would like wireless comms (motorola style) with a headset and ptt mics. We would only be looking for around 6 of these and possibly one would need to connect to a speaker in the main dressing room for calling actors.

I am not sure if it is better to rent or to buy but either way I'm not sure what exactly I should go for. Any help would be great. Our budget it as low as possible. For this show I have possibly £200 at a push. We are putting on 3 nights plus a full dress rehearsal so would need them for 4 nights in total although I would like to have them for a week to be sure I have time to collect and return if I'm renting.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

JT

 

We use Motorola radios something like these in our amateur group:

 

http://digital2wayradios.co.uk/shop?gclid=CKzqjcPb9cACFVNutAodxnEAqQ#!/Motorola-TLKR-T80-Twin-Pack/p/33886176

http://digital2wayradios.co.uk/shop?gclid=CKrT9qTc9cACFVDKtAodPxwAtQ#!/Motorola-XT400-Series-Earpiece-with-Inline-PTT-Microphone/p/33886177/category=8706060

 

mainly for outdoor productions. They are cheap enough and work well for our use. They have a built in speaker, but that may not be loud enough for a dressing room. 6 of them won't quite fit in your budget with headsets, but not far off.

[pete10uk]

I have a set of these http://cpc.farnell.com/mitex/general/mitex-general-uhf-radios-twin-pack/dp/IT45118

 

I use them for typical 2-way communication out on site but I rent them out to local schools and am dram groups for show Comms, the only thing you need to ensure is that the radio is a good meter away from audio desks as it can clunk when you start to tx. They tend to use them with in ear's and they work fine.

 

I know your budget is limited but you could acquire them over a few shows.

It is also worth mentioning you also need a licence for them as well.

 

Alternately you could find a local hire company.

[paulears]

There are plenty of these radios around from the usual suppliers, and the Chinese ones on ebay are pretty decent.

 

The ones from CPC say they are on on 403MHz, which is rather unusual - the other are PMR446 which is free to use, but reliability depends on users in the area, and with 6 channels only, can be a problem - yelling GO GO GO and not getting through because the pizza delivery moped outside is reading back their order could be rather annoying.

 

The price of these things is now so cheap that proper full duplex systems are a bit dear - but personally I hate walkie talkies because the audio quality is poorer, and you need to prod a button to speak. The box option some have is really useless.

[jmdh]

There are plenty of these radios around from the usual suppliers, and the Chinese ones on ebay are pretty decent.

 

The ones from CPC say they are on on 403MHz, which is rather unusual - the other are PMR446 which is free to use, but reliability depends on users in the area, and with 6 channels only, can be a problem - yelling GO GO GO and not getting through because the pizza delivery moped outside is reading back their order could be rather annoying.

 

The price of these things is now so cheap that proper full duplex systems are a bit dear - but personally I hate walkie talkies because the audio quality is poorer, and you need to prod a button to speak. The box option some have is really useless.

 

It's true, nothing beats a proper full duplex system. The motorolas do suffer from there being a delay between PTT and your voice actually being audible at the other end - and of course people manage to press to talk by mistake and then tie up the channel. But I'm not sure the inconvenience would justify the cost of a full duplex system for us.

[top-cat]

http://digital2wayra...ategory=8706060

 

 

 

Woah... you'd pay £18 for an ear piece? to hell with that.

 

look on eBay, you should be able to get them (of course, a lower quality) for like £2-3 max, one or two always get broken or lost anyway so the cheap ones are best.

 

that brings you well inside £200 too

 

HOWEVER, in radio terms I had some of these http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/B00760RP5A - you can pick them up on eBay in various different packs with speaker mics / headset mics / spare batteries / cases etc... I got 4 radios, 8 batteries, 4 earpieces, 4 speaker mics, 4 cases... for £100. And they are brilliant. Far better range than the Motorola things you linked to, and very clear comms. on eBay I am seeing prices like £70 for 6... it really is a giveaway! I would just say buy spare batteries and headsets and things like that so when as per all chinese stuff the range is discontinued at some point, you have a bit of stock. But you are still coming in way under £200.... just make sure you buy the USB lead, if you don't then you can't program them with UK legal frequencies.

 

 

with 6 channels only, can be a problem - yelling GO GO GO and not getting through because the pizza delivery moped outside is reading back their order could be rather annoying.

 

 

The things to remember are:

 

1) the take-away moped thing is all a bit of a myth really. it might have been true 10-20 years ago, but it isn't now. For one, the general drill is pick up the pizza and take it to it's destination, then ride back to the pizza shop... pizzas don't tend to change owners mid-delivery. And secondly, the pizza company are aware of the same issues regarding PMR446 and so will simply send out all their instructions over mobile phones. Bluetooth headsets are way easier. Taxi companies generally either used licensed frequencies, or again just use mobile phones and text messages. With mobile phone calls being so cheap now, PMR446 is not highly populated at all nowadays.

 

2) Whilst you do only have 6 frequencies, even the basic sets usually have filters on the radio that allow you to enter a key setting and not receive any traffic without that key setting. It doesn't mean that simultaneous transmissions could not face interference, but it does mean if somebody else is operating in close proximity to you, you can filter out their activity. But then, as I previously alluded to, it's most unlikely that you will have 6 groups of people operating within the range of PMR446 sets to you... so you'd be fine to change frequency really.

 

All in all, the interference scenario for PMR446 is fairly unlikely.

 

I think we will all agree that nothing beats proper wireless comms for theatrical use, being able to have multiple users broadcasting simultaneously is an often overlooked feature as are things like the call button, and being able to transmit whilst your hands are doing something else. But it is REALLY expensive... Impact (who's prices are generally very good) list a 6-way system at £660 a week. (Impact listed purely because they publish list prices). Clearly not viable for this scenario at all.

[dbuckley]

Nice as those radios are, I suspect you won't be able to use them in the UK without a licence. The PMR frequencies will require type approved kit, and these radios will probably not haVe that approval as they can work on non-PMR frequencies.

[paulears]

I live in a small town. In the town centre PMR446 use is high. The filter TC alludes to is a pain. CTCSS simply gives the impression of more channels, and stops you hearing people on your working channel. However, it decreases reliability of messages getting through. In my town centre there are a number of busy restaurants and late night opening shops who use PMR446 for their business, and they're not light users. My pizza analogy isn't far fetched, and many radios lock out transmit if there is activity on the channel, so pressing transmit doesn't do anything.

 

The snag is that because these radios are not fitted with manual controls, you can't listen on a channel for activity easily, then apply a CTCSS code, as you would do with programmable kit. Some even have horrible pip tones you can't disable, but rarely get a mention in the adverts. Audio quality on PMR446 is also a little worse because of the narrow channel spacing in that band, so deviation is lower and filtering sharper. It's ok, but just tiring to listen to.

 

So rather than say interference is unlikely, it's HIGHLY likely, especially so in the evenings when people use them like CB radios to chat across a district. It's like using channel 70 radio mics, they usually work, but when they don't, there isn't a plan B.

 

They will work, but they're just not that nice. When I do panto, I'm all over the building during the shows, and I always tap in to the comms system, then the DSM if there's a problem just asks me to come to the stage. At first I just hung a base station on the line and used a walkie talkie, but now use IEMs as the audio quality is so much better. 6 hours a day for a long time makes it important. In a radio only system, quality is important, and one real issue for me is the squelch closure speed. A burst of schwwwwwwup every time they let go of the button can be painful!

[timsabre]

For most amdram shows you'd be much better off with a wired system. Much easier to use and more reliable.

[paulears]

And you still have two hands to work!

[jmdh]

For most amdram shows you'd be much better off with a wired system. Much easier to use and more reliable.

 

And prohibitively expensive, unless there are options I haven't considered? A tecpro 6 pack system seems to be in the region of £3000 + VAT before cables...

[Andrew C]

Hire.

[MarkPAman]

BlueClone ;)

[top-cat]

Nice as those radios are, I suspect you won't be able to use them in the UK without a licence. The PMR frequencies will require type approved kit, and these radios will probably not haVe that approval as they can work on non-PMR frequencies.

 

rubbish.

 

PMR446 are not 'special' frequencies. Any programmable radio working in the same frequency band can be programmed to PMR446 frequencies.

 

Hence I said " just make sure you buy the USB lead, if you don't then you can't program them with UK legal frequencies."

[timsabre]

For most amdram shows you'd be much better off with a wired system. Much easier to use and more reliable.

 

And prohibitively expensive, unless there are options I haven't considered? A tecpro 6 pack system seems to be in the region of £3000 + VAT before cables...

 

Stonewood/Granite seems to cost £121 for the packs and £82 for the headset which would be £1218 for 6 packs. Or a weeks hire would be about £100.

I just find PMR-type radio comms on theatre shows where nobody actually needs wireless adds unnecessary trouble as you have to ask people to repeat themselves and the sound quality is harsh. With a good wired headset system you can pretty much forget you are using it.