Come check out the Midas M32

[Alec]

Any chance of a bit of a video review?

 

Though, to be fair, I guess it'll only be able to compare the cosmetic design tweaks against the X32 and the updated pres/faders.

[soundiesam]

Talking to Pat from SFL yesterday (as this was on our options list, though it didn't arrive at his desk in time for a practical demo) the Midas version is of a better physical build (one of my guys has an X32 and I feel it is rather 'plasticky') and yes, many of the physical components are of a better quality - pre-amps in particular are Midas rather than Behringer.

 

Pat has legged it on a week's hols now so would guess that he won't be back to comment just yet (depends I suppose on how much of a holiday his holiday is... :) )

 

 

hey all I have just recieved mine from SFL.

 

@Ynot im in Leicester forest east if you wanna have a look I can bring over to you at the theatre sometime in the next few weeks

 

sam

[Mark Payne]

@Mark,

 

I agree that the improved faders will increase the cost over the X32; however, the difference in circuitry between a MIDAS pre and the existing M32 pre is likely insignificantly small. The case on the other hand is much more expensive on the M32.

 

@ One-Eng

 

We will have to disagree on that one.. The X32 mic pre was designed for the X32.. at a price, for this entry level console.

However, the M32 pre and its A/D convertors were lifted directly out of Midas Pro series. The difference is "_not_ likely" to be insignificantly small.

The difference is significantly large.

 

Also the D/A convertors and output drive stages to the XLR outs are from the Pro series.

... As is the headphone monitoring circuit.

 

Having just completed a week of events on a Pro2 I am again reminded how forgiving and how accomodating Midas mic amplifiers are.

You can drive the nuts off this stuff and it just keeps sounding nice.

 

Looking forward to using M32.

Meanwhile and for balance can I just also say what a fantastic device the Yamaha QL1 is...... Its like Jesus took an LS9 and healed it.

 

xxx

 

M

[henny]

Open architecture allows for future 96 kHz operation

 

The X32 is only 48 kHz but looks like the 96Khz on the M32 may be somewhat delayed

[Mark Payne]

Henny

 

Thats something I know nothing about to be honest.

I need to research the 96K thing on M32. So far... we all knew it was 48K. I have seen the "96K ready" kind of blurb.

I had ignored it to be honest. Do we need 96K on a console like this?

 

M

 

Open architecture allows for future 96 kHz operation

 

The X32 is only 48 kHz but looks like the 96Khz on the M32 may be somewhat delayed

[top-cat]

Open architecture allows for future 96 kHz operation

 

The X32 is only 48 kHz but looks like the 96Khz on the M32 may be somewhat delayed

 

Out of interest, what is the purpose of 96k on a live console?

 

A CD is 44.1k and most people consider them to be a perfectly good medium for playing back audio.

 

I think if I could get a live sound mix so good that the only limitation I could find in my system was that it was running at 48k not 96k.... everything else - the musicians, the instruments, the mics, the processing, the PA, the room acoustics... everything was 100% proper and I felt my only limiting factor was the sample rate.... well I think I could live with that.

[nb705]

The biggest measurable advantage of 96k over 48k, regardless of subjective sound quality arguments is that of latency. A/D and D/A conversions take half the time, which can make occlusion in IEMs significantly more manageable.

[Mark Payne]

The biggest measurable advantage of 96k over 48k, regardless of subjective sound quality arguments is that of latency. A/D and D/A conversions take half the time, which can make occlusion in IEMs significantly more manageable.

 

Hmmmm, yes but for me this is not the 96K money issue.

I would suggest:

 

1: 96K allows the final D/A brick wall filters 2 octaves in which to get the job done. A 1 octave elimination slope leads to instabilities in the audio bandwidth that we can hear.

 

2: 96K eliminates the need for asymmetric DSP EQ algorithms.

 

1 and 2 above are part of the Midas mantra on 96K ... you can ignore it as marketing hype if you like. However my ears hear music on Pro series so I will not argue against.

 

M

[top-cat]

Even with that Mark, at the X32 and even the M32 end of the market (sub-£10,000 console), surely the lack of 96k should be considered far from a deal breaker?!

[paulears]

I wish my ears were as good mark. For the past few years as kit progressed, I've been increasing sample rates and bit depth as each new revision had these as defaults and I'm still using the same speakers in my studio that I used in 2000! I know their sound and like it. I'm totally unconvinced the sound changed in any way I can hear. I know the physics says it's better, and I'm glad you can hear it. I don't doubt some people can, but I certainly can't. Maybe people who hear my recordings are getting some kind of benefit, I don't know?

 

However, in live music, I'm always slightly smirky about claims these things make a difference. I've never heard a PA of any cost in a big room sound like a hi-fi or studio monitor. They sound like what they are, and clarity in the top end is just not there, even at my age related cutoff. It probably comes out the speakers, but doesn't make the journey!

 

The Midas kit I have heard sounds nice, nicer to my ears than other brands, but the difference is not at the top end where the 96k debate revolves, it's lower down where some systems feel edgy and a bit harsh.

 

I like the M32 design and quality, but until somebody does a side by side against the Behringer S16 preamp rack, we won't know the audible difference.

 

I wonder if an x32 will talk to the Midas preamp rack, or if they'll put in a flag to stop it working?

[top-cat]

I wonder if an x32 will talk to the Midas preamp rack, or if they'll put in a flag to stop it working?

 

I thought it had already been established that people had got X32s working with DL251s?

 

Was that a typo and you meant the inverse? M32 with S16?

[paulears]

Not a typo, but I didn't make it very clear I meant the identical looking DL16 - the DL251 costing more than the X32 by a fair bit!

[jamesperrett]

 

1: 96K allows the final D/A brick wall filters 2 octaves in which to get the job done. A 1 octave elimination slope leads to instabilities in the audio bandwidth that we can hear.

 

 

If number 1 is part of Midas' marketing then it suggests they're either using 30 year old technology or taking short cuts with their DSP. Oversampling convertors have been used since the early 80's in order to remove the need for analogue brick wall filters and modern digital brick wall filters can be made virtually inaudible.

 

I'm sure that the Midas engineers know this, but it might be worth pointing out to their marketing people that denegrating 44.1 or 48kHz sampling rates in this way doesn't make them look good in the eyes of knowledgeable engineers.

 

The need for oversampling in certain DSP processes is a much more valid reason for the use of high sample rates.

[kingp]

Hi guys,We've bought 2 M32s for our hire stock and the first one arrived on Friday. First impressions are based on an hours worth of fiddling are:

 

* Yes it seems better built than an X32- the knobs seem slightly more chunky and the edges light up quite nicely in a blue white light indicating which functions are valid in the particular mode (for example if you select an output bus the pre amp and hpf knobs are not lit) this is a nice feature - the X32 might have it too, if so, haven't noticed.

 

* I am slightly concerned that the legends on the buttons which light when pressed might be difficult to see in strong sunlight. They look cool in a dark room but the bit that lights up is quite small. I much prefer the X32 producer with large tactile feel buttons that light up brightly. (much better than the X32). I note the M32 has the combined screen/confirm buttons of the Producer though.

 

* Weird one this - you can tell its been designed by a non user. For me the fader bank starts quite a long way in from the arm rest and the fader bank, channel LEDS and buttons are on a completely flat tray with no rake at all. This coupled with the steep upslope of the control section gives the visual impression that the fader bank actually slopes downhill. This is difficult to explain but several people have mentioned it on first encounter. I am asking my flight case people to foam the cases so the rear of the console sits 10-15mm higher than the front.

 

* Comes with V2 software but with M32 splash screens at start up and on lock mode.

 

* Desk light has been moved to the back by the monitor outputs, so you'll need an 90degree desk lamp and a cut out in your back box (let your flight case company know).

 

*The screen seems to be better than the X32 - brighter and higher resolution. I may be wrong on this and our X32 was one of the first shipped in 2012 so current X32s may have the same screen...

 

* Small point, but it comes with a really cheap and nasty dust cover - certainly lower quality than the standard X32 item and this must be considered as an own goal. They are keen to market this as a high quality item that sells at a premium.

 

* As the X32, it DOES NOT currently work with the DL 251 or any other Midas IO box. I'm sick of this issue. At launch of the X32 the 251 and the X32 worked together perfectly. The problem is every time Midas upgrade their firmware it knocks out connectivity with the X32. V2 X32 software fixed it and I thought that was it, but hey presto Midas brought out G2.3.1 and screwed things up again. Midas' attitude has been 'we're nothing to do with the X32 platform and we don't talk to them (Behringer) about compatibility before we release an update' Make of that what you will, but the M32 is a Midas desk that WILL be bought by hire companies with DL251s in stock. In fact I know of someone who has ordered 2 M32s with 251s believing them to work together - they don't. Our company has Pro series, X32s and now M32s consoles in stock (along with digital consoles from other manufacturers) and I call on Music Group to sort out these compatibility issues without delay. I would like all desks to be compatible with 1 series and 2 series Midas AES 50 boxes please - is it too much to ask?

 

* Sound - well plugging in a 58 in the warehouse is a far as I've got. I can confirm the DL251 when connected to the X32 made a very clear improvement in sound - so I'm sure having these preamps on board with upgraded electronics too will result in a very good sounding console indeed.

 

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm being negative - I'm not really, I like it and have invested in two consoles sight unseen. My main niggle is with Music Group - they really need to get their act together and finally sort out all these compatibility issues.

 

Finally, if anyone wants to take a look just drop me a line. It will be set up in our prep area for a while whilst we wait for the flight cases to arrive. (we're in Bristol)

 

Paul King

[soundiesam]

paul read this http://forum.behringer.com/showthread.php?2924-X32-and-Midas-DL251-Setup/page3 then your 251 will work with x32