alexadamson Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I am after some advice about moving a grand piano. I’m currently in the planning stages of our 2014 Edinburgh Fringe Festival programme and one show is causing me issues. One of the shows that will be in our venue has a Steinway Model B onstage, which is played as part of the show. My main problem is that I have eight other shows on every day that don’t require a full size piano onstage and so I need to move the piano on and off stage everyday. Whats needed: The show requiring the piano will be show five of eight each day. Show 4 will finish and my crew have approximately 30mins to clear the stage and get the piano in place. The show lasts for 1 hour (once the piano is on stage it doesn’t need to be moved) but at the end the crew have 30mins to clear the piano and get show 6 ready. So anybody who knows about fringe venues knows that speed and timing is a factor. The venue: This will be happing in our temporary 380 seat performance space. We have a total stage of 8m wide by 3m deep at 850mm high from the floor (made up of sections of 2x1 deck). There is steps access to the either side of stage, and there is a 1.5m wide aisle either side of the stage, one of which I can block as its not required fro emergency access. Piano: The piano they are considering is similar to a Steinway Model B so Length 6' 11" (211cm), Width 4' 10" (148cm), Net weight 345kg. It has to be an acoustic, something about the way its played (multiple people / they play the strings and body) means it can’t be electric. What would people suggest about moving the piano daily considering the venue and time restraints we have? I am thinking about something like a 'rolling riser' that could roll next to my main stage at the same height and I transfer the piano on and off (would this be stable at 850mm high ??). Should I look at tipping the piano everyday or would that mean it needs tuning everyday?Does anybody know of any motorised piano lifts that could be useful in this situation? Would I be able to push the piano up a ramp from the floor to stage or does that put too much adverse pressure on the legs? Is there someway it could live under the stage and be raised and lowered? Thanks in advance… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I'll leave the intricacies of the movement to others to advise on but I can tell you that moving a piano around that much, that quickly, that often means it's going to take a (physical) beating and it's going to need retuning a lot more often than you'd expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Would I be able to push the piano up a ramp from the floor to stage or does that put too much adverse pressure on the legs? At one of my venues, we do it with a ramp. The piano has a steel frame around the base of its legs which provides the necessary bracing - you can't do it without that. We use a turfer for moving it up & down. It takes longer to built and de-rig the ramp than your half hour window, but that's partly just the nature of its particular construction. It does need tuning after a trip up & down. Elsewhere, we've used the brute force approach when we've had enough crew - it's certainly the fastest way although really not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 You definitely don't want to be tipping it or pushing it up and down a ramp if you can avoid it, it would need tuning for sure then. Even being rolled around on the flat might cause tuning problems, though this may or may not be important depending on the nature of the show. If you can block one side of stage couldn't you extend the stage to make a parking area for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatBigHippy Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Given the specification of the piano I'd check about tuning.In the classical work I've done the piano gets tuned twice, once before rehearsal and once for the show and tuned every time it is moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Aye to what everyone else has said about tuning - even just rolling it around on the flat is going to knock it out of tune after a couple of days, and if you're having to go up and down a ramp or anything like that then you're going to need to have it tuned daily (from the sound of it, the piano is a pretty central part of the performance). You know the dimensions, so I guess it's safe to assume that you've got somewhere to store the instrument that's well away from the risk of it getting damaged by the setting and striking of the other seven shows. But you shouldn't underestimate the weight of an instrument like that - both in terms of the manual handling implications, and also the fact that if it's being regularly moved about like this I'd say it's pretty important to sit it onto a suitable frame so that the legs don't cop for too much of a battering. I'm guessing you're going to be renting this instrument? If so, speak to the rental company that it's coming from and get their input. Piano rental companies have a lot of experience of getting their instruments in and out of venues, and on and off stages - I'm sure they'll have some advice to offer. It's a pity that an electric piano isn't an option, otherwise you could build one into a wooden replica grand piano framework and save yourself a lot of bother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanhill Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 My question: What is the '2x1' deck that you mention? Even the Rolls Royce of pianos will need regular tuning. I think a phone call to the artist may be in order. E2a: sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beware Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Isn't it down to the artistes? When I was running a venue at the fringe, whilst we'd make every effort to help, the logistics of setting the stage is really down to the company. If workable, there is such a thing as a portable baby grand. It'll fit in an estate car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 You really should be asking piano movers, not theatre technicians :) . There are many labour saving devices allowing a small number of people to move very large pianos up and down stairs, on and off platforms etc. there was a very interesting programme on R4 the other day about this very thing, unfortunately I can't recall the name of the company involved, but they were very proud of their piano-moving robot. Be prepared for a enormous bill, however. And whether it is feasible in half hour turn-round is a good question. I wonder, if the performers are proposing to hit the instrument, scrape the strings etcetera whether tuning is of primary concern, but of course as everyone has said, refer to the artistes about this. Alternatively, tell all the other acts that there will be a 7ft piano in the corner of their set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 The more I think about this, the more it strikes me that there may have to be some compromise. You say that these artistes view their 7-ft grand piano is an integral part of their performance - but what if each of the other seven groups all decided that they had a 1/3-tonne 7-foot-long piece of kit that simply had to be in their show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 If you are thinking of a rolling riser then it would be easier to build a permanent extension and park the thing there behind drapes. If they are bashing strings and similar then it has to be their own piano and they can deal with tuning and such like. If they are thinking of hiring one in then I think it your moral duty to tell them to strike the whole idea. I would have to vacate the premises if anyone started battering a £30,000 Steinway in front of me. How is your insurance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderick Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 This is what you need: If it fits the fringe budget is doubtful but it is a safe and reliable way of doing what needs to be done. You could contact them and see if either they know someone in the UK you could hire it from or see if they are interested in sponsoring....Contact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRW Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 This is what you need: If it fits the fringe budget is doubtful but it is a safe and reliable way of doing what needs to be done. You could contact them and see if either they know someone in the UK you could hire it from or see if they are interested in sponsoring....Contact That's genius!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexadamson Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Thank you for all the replies so far, very helpful. The piano is an integral part of the show, with very little room to compromise, as the show is two guys playing a piano (in various different ways) for an hour. It's clear that tuning will be a factor however its moved, thats another block of time I have to find in an already packed schedule every couple of days, I hope the piano tuner either works very late, or very early !! The show is providing the piano and arranging insurance, and yes, I am in talks with the supplier about movement etc.. but I was hoping to speak to technicians to see if anybody had any clever ideas about moving it that I could see if the piano supplier is happy with. What would people think about a 'High Lift' pallet truck or mini fork lift ?!?!Would a scissor lift be an option ?? Unfortunately, there are no wings in this venue as its a thrust stage built into the room, with a tiered seating bank on three sides. The 2x1 deck is 'Topdeck', but I could switch this out for something else if needed. I've attached a photo to give you an idea of the stage/room. Whats not clear is the aisle space I have between the seating and back wall (the area under the yellow logo gobo) which is about 1.7m wide Thanks again for all the suggestions so far !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibbothegreat Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 There is indeed a Klavier Roller in the UK, but I severely doubt that you'd make it work in a 30-minute turn round - it involves tipping the piano and demounting the legs and pedal work. It's then very slow to move, plus you'd need one of the company's technicians, I don't think they'd dry hire it. You would also have to tune it every time it's rebuilt, and 30 minutes wouldn't even allow the most cursory of touch-ups. Alex, I'll send you a PM with the contact details for Steinway's top man in Scotland, he'll be pleased to give you informed and unbiased advice. If it does have to be acoustic, but moved each time, might a Yamaha CP80 be an option? It's an electro-acoustic piano - real hammers and strings, but no sound board, pick up mic on each string and electronics to produce and amplified sound. It's quite a distinctive sound, but most importantly it does break down fairly easily: I owned the slightly smaller CP70 for many years, and it was just about movable on my own, although it was more comfortable with two. But it would take no more than a couple of minutes to dismantle and remove. The one I had was very robust in holding its tuning through the numerous moves I put it through. Where you'd get one is another matter, however. Not sure if any instrument hire companies hold these, but they are still very much in demand in the rock world, so they may do. Edit to add: looks like they can be hired, Google Search for 'Yamaha CP80 hire' came up with a few sources Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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