HSE Revised Publications

[Tomo]

The plot thickens.

 

The reply I got in June claimed that they had consulted industry stakeholders:

During the review process, our event industry stakeholders were consulted via the Joint Advisory Committee on Entertainment (JACE). This group includes representatives from BECTU, PLASA and ABTT. The committee did not raise any issues with us about the original or revised guidance documents.

I asked when they had done the consultation and which organisations had sight of the drafts, as the JACE minutes don't mention it, and today got a different response from another HSE employee:

HSE has undertaken a comprehensive review of its guidance over the last few years. Where significant changes have been proposed to guidance regarding technical content, the law or HSE policy we have sought to consult with all relevant stakeholders. As I understand it the revision of the guidance you refer to was light touch on the basis that the content of the existing versions were more or less fit for purpose. As far as I’m aware in the five years I have been in post we have not received any feedback suggesting that the guidance was technically flawed. Consequently, we did not feel it was necessary to consult outside HSE on the limited changes to the guidance. This is why you cannot find anything relating to a consultation.

So they now claim that they did not consult, and the reason for this was because they had no record of recent complaints about the previous guidance - a fundamentally flawed thought process.

 

I don't like being lied to, and it would appear that the HSE may even have a policy of blindly republishing without asking any industry stakeholders unless enough people have been bugging them about it recently.

 

Humbug.

[dbuckley]

I don't know enough about modern sound systems to give specific examples.

 

This bit:

It is preferable that all the different parts of the sound system are powered from the same phase of the electricity supply. If not, the risk of mains hum will be increased and people may be tempted to remove the earths from the equipment.

is utter twaddle. It isn't running off separate phases that causes humming; its that the equipment doesn't know the words it is potential differences between things that are supposedly connected to earth. So a single earth point for the entire audio installation is the way to stop the hum. This is "star" earthing, and has been known about since the beginning of electronics.

 

 

The bits about 3-phase apparently date from the original 1997 version, before BS7671 16th ed.

They would hate New Zealand, Australia, and Norway; in these three places at least it is standard practice for dimmers to run off a three phase supply, here's a pic of 36 channels of Kiwi-style dimming, on which I've scrawled how the phases are laid out. How do they think they gonna keep the phases in this arrangement in separate "cubicles".

 

http://davidbuckley.name/pix/tl_powerpacks_and_phases.jpg

 

Edited for SPaG.

[J Pearce]

The issue with the document is that most of our UK touring racks follow a similar approach, in an attempt to ensure phase balancing.

[Tomo]

The issue with the document is that most all of our UK touring racks follow a similar approach, in an attempt to ensure phase balancing.

Fixed that for you :)

 

While I can reel off ten or twenty different 3-phase dimmers, I can't do the same for sound though I'm sure they must exist.

 

I know it's ######, everybody in the industry knows it's ######, but the HSE are refusing to acknowledge this.

At least they've now admitted that they lied to me about consultation, so maybe they'll ask JACE at the next meeting and we can get a document that's actually useful.

[J Pearce]

Tomo - quite. I didn't like to say all lest someone find some strange brand who make theirs single phase.

 

I'm seeing more amp racks setup with 32/3 as we squeeze more power and more channels into each rack unit. And how one is supposed to load an event genny with all of the dynamic load from sound on one phase I have no idea.

[paulears]

I got a response from HSE today on the con tray advice in the Electrical Safety for Entertainers publication.

 

They've looked a the query we were talking about and concluded the info is somewhat out of date.

Hi Paul,

 

Thank you for your patience in waiting for a reply.

 

I have now had a chance to discuss this with our principal electrical specialist. The wording in INDG 247 reflects equipment which is possibly now not the most modern or up to date, and reflects the likelihood, at that time, of mixing different phases from different dimmer units onto one lighting bar. However, as you have pointed out, newer proprietary equipment such as specifically designed three phase dimmer units are now available. Provided that these new units meet the Essential Health and Safety Requirements of the low voltage directive (i.e. they are CE marked declaring their compliance with the directive), then HSE would have no objection to their use - with all the usual provisos of use by competent persons and properly maintained and installed etc.

 

We will be looking at the wording of this section in INDG 247, with a view to making this clearer.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards

 

Adrian

[Simon Lewis]

Excellent work there Paul!