Alleyoop Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I'm considering going digital from a Yamaha MG166 and the Allen & Heath QU 16 looks appealing. Having not used a digital mixer before, I have a couple of dumb questions to ask of anyone who uses one. The information I've seen says it has 3 stereo inputs, but I can only see two sets of TRS sockets on the back. I presume when connected these are operated by channels 16 and 15? I expect that a different set of FX characteristics can be applied to separate outputs? For example, if I have a mic connected to Channel 1 and I apply a reverb effect, HPF setting, a PEQ profile and a compression setting for the L+R main output, those settings don't apply to any other output, so if I also send that Channel 1 mic to Mix 1 and Mix 2, I can have an entirely different profile for each of those outpus, no compression, different HPF setting, different PEQ settings, less reverb or totally dry, whatever? There are no Return inputs? If I choose to send an output to an outboard processor I have to return it via one of the 16 channels? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 The information I've seen says it has 3 stereo inputs, but I can only see two sets of TRS sockets on the back. I presume when connected these are operated by channels 16 and 15?The third stereo input is a minijack on the front panel - intended for easy connection of mp3 player or whatever. The stereo channels all appear on the second layer of faders. I expect that a different set of FX characteristics can be applied to separate outputs? For example, if I have a mic connected to Channel 1 and I apply a reverb effect, HPF setting, a PEQ profile and a compression setting for the L+R main output, those settings don't apply to any other output, so if I also send that Channel 1 mic to Mix 1 and Mix 2, I can have an entirely different profile for each of those outpus, no compression, different HPF setting, different PEQ settings, less reverb or totally dry, whatever?That's not generally how digital desks work. You only have one HPF, EQ, compressor etc for each channel. You can sometimes change the tap point where feeds come from that channel to be pre-EQ for example though. The buses themselves all have EQ, dynamics etc. though so you can effect each output mix individually. Reverb works much like on an analogue desk - you can return it to whichever buses you like. The routing diagram inside the back cover of the manual might be helpful for you. There are no Return inputs? If I choose to send an output to an outboard processor I have to return it via one of the 16 channels?Either that or one of the stereo inputs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alleyoop Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Great, thanks. I downloaded a manual and, yes, I see the Layer Select. I also see a Mix Routing screen where you can choose Pre Eq for a monitor mix. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&L Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Shez has this one covered above except to say:yes you can apply different amounts of reverb (or no reverb) to each output (mix bus). with all digital desks you have a virtual rack of fxs and multi band geq's. with the qu16 you can choose up to 4 fx to be in that rack at any one time and choose how much of those 4 fx to apply to each mix bus / output. you can also choose to apply a geq to each output. each digital desk also has a virtual patch bay - what you can do with that patch bay and how it looks on screen varies but it will allow such things as selecting whether a channel takes its signal from a remote stagebox or from a local input. the qu16 is a good choice for bands etc without an engineer and instead with say the keyboard player looking after the desk on stage. the qu is focused on a narrow but well defined set of functions and each channel has I's own fader on the top layer - making it look and feel like an analogue (until you mix monitor buses or fx buses). I have actually tried a similar application to outboard processing with the qu16 a few weeks ago. we routed the internal fx to an out and routed it back to a channel. in that case it was to cut the reverb on a pedal for a band that wanted to work that way, but the same logic could be applied to an outboard and without trying it I'm pretty sure you could just set up a bus, like a monitor bus and send that to an output which connected to your processor and then you could bring your processor back to a channel or stereo input. that would allow you to send varying amounts of any channel you wanted to the external processor. the x32 producer and compact are easier to do this with and you can insert that processor to a mix bus or an individual channel without sacrificing mic input connections, using 6 aux out and in connections. the patch combinations are more versatile on the x32 series but for a novice the leap to digital may be easier with the qu - particularly if you are using it as a performing musician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alleyoop Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Excellent, thanks. I have a number of spare channels, so routing back to a channel isn't a problem, especially since the four stereo channels on my Yamaha actually take up 8 of the 16 channels. With the Allen & Heath the stereo inputs are in addition to the 16 mic/line channels. I appreciate the advice, thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelgrian Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 With respect to returns even many bigger and more expensive designs don't have 'short' or 'virtual' returns for bringing fx back in to the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I'm now considering a Qu16 as a more rider friendly alternative to my Mackie DL1608. Don't get me wrong, I love the DL but I have a few fairly high profile gigs in the offing and I think the A&H will be more acceptable to the SEs involved. I would buy the X32 Rack but with so many 'no Berry' comments on riders that'd be a bad idea at present http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif So, the Qu-pad app on iTunes says "this version only supports one iPad connection" I take that to mean that I can't use multiple iDevices (band members mixing their own monitors, or somebody out front with an iPad mixing FOH while I mix monitors from my music stand mounted iPad)? Does anybody know if I'm right (a huge disadvantage) and/or if A&H intend to update the app to allow multiple connections in future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Sam, you are right on both counts. You can of course mix FOH on the desk and mons on an iPad, - or I suppose the other way around, (but the iPad does not let you edit effects, yet) As for the future, A&H don't tend to say much until the upgrade is pretty well ready to go, though they have said that recording for Windows is in the pipeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Sam, you are right on both counts. You can of course mix FOH on the desk and mons on an iPad, - or I suppose the other way around, (but the iPad does not let you edit effects, yet) As for the future, A&H don't tend to say much until the upgrade is pretty well ready to go, though they have said that recording for Windows is in the pipeline. Thanks Mark, for the moment at least, that makes the Qu16 a non starter as it doesn't give me enough to justify the extra expense. The X32 Rack or Producer would do what I want but I can't see it satisfying some of the 'pro' sound engineers I've encountered recently. Having got used to using two iPads and at least one other iDevice I can't see me being happy restricted to just one iPad so until the extra features are in addition to what my DL1608 can do (and considering the significant cost of the upgrade) I guess I'll have to pass (a great shame as I really like the A&H desks I use on a daily basis).If they did a QU-Surface and QU-Rack connected by Cat5 (Fostex did it a couple of years ago so it ain't rocket science) or, better still, wifi rather than requiring a traditional multicore (one huge reason for going digital was to lose the 'snake') I'd maybe live with the one iPad limitation.I've just had a reply from A&H support regarding my similar query, they say it's on the 'to do' list but they have other, higher priorities which implies "don't hold your breath"http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 We've had no issues with "Rider acceptability" on the X32. It's been used as Mons on medidum festivals (a couple of guest mons engineers) and as FOH on a few smaller festivals where one engineer had his suspicions but after actually seeing it being used to get a good mix and using it himself he was happy. I think the X32 would be a better route for you. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'd go for the X32 if it was just me using it but for every engineer who would be prepared to try it there will be another who just won't consider a Behringer box regardless, it'll be a few years before the die hards will be convinced. If I'm going to upgrade I need something that is solidly rider friendly and it'll be a while before Behringer is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistermorton Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Sticky label over the Behringer badge that says Midas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Or an M32? SFL have stock, I'm sure they could arrange a demo if you were interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam.spoons Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Or an M32? SFL have stock, I'm sure they could arrange a demo if you were interested. Sadly no, I might be able to persuade myself that an upgrade to an X32 Compact or Qu16 was viable but at £5k the M32 plus a couple of DL16 digital snakes take it into dreamland as far as my budget is concerned http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I thought the M32 used the Behringer snakes? You could easily hide those from the eyes of a touring engineer... :P Having used the X32 extensively and a good read of the Qu specs, I would say the X32 has much more functionality. Sound quality I haven't done a proper AB. Get the X32 and sub in a A&H for the odd rider that won't take Behringer? A chat with the engineer in question can often work wonders in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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