Jester ml24

[Fil2012]

HELP! I'm knew to this DMX world but the local theatre club have just installed some rgb pars and moving head along with a new jester ml 24.. Problem I'm having is when I run the saved show.

I have spent time programming every scene etc, using moving heads and pars. I 'set' the scene. I can physically see exactly what I want happening in front of me so I save it to the next empty memory! When I enter run mode and am running the show the light aren't doing what I save them as doing !! It's like it's forgetting some things! Any ideas???

[LEdgeley]

Obvious stuff first, have you checked that the A master and the memory master are both on full?

 

When you go back into program mode and edit a cue, does the output return to what was originally programmed, or is it the same as in run mode?

Have you set up the moving heads and RGB pars as fixtures, or are you programming them manually?

 

Is there anything particular the lights seem to be "forgetting" (e.g. just the tilts seem out of whack), or does it affect multiple attributes? If it's a particular attribute that's being forgotten all the time, it could be a tagging issue.

[Fil2012]

Hi

Both fader memory and grand are up full.

I have assigned all pars and movers as fixtures. I can programme anything I want and can physically see it on stage. But when running show it seems like sometimes pars forget to change colour or mover doesn't full move and gobo doesn't change. It's lots of little thing. Different thing happen at different times I run it. I'm so confused. I would accept operator error but I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Everything looks fine to me!

 

Brainwave!!!!!! Would me not 'zeroing' every fixture affect it? Eg programme 6 scenes then immediately move to run mode and try to 'play' show but leaving the last scene 'live'.

[Robin Pratt]

There is the option to tag/untag various fixture attributes for recording, I can't instantly recall how you do it but if somebody has been playing around with that then the desk will record some things but not others...

[mal421]

Do you understand the difference between HTP and LTP ? Also, how have you got the 'Record Options' set? If the movers are not fully moving to a new position is there a fade time set ? If there is it may not be giving the movers sufficient time to complete the move before the next scene is triggered. Another option with the movers may be the parameters and start point of any FX you are using. Before running any scenes on a Jester I always start from a known point i.e. Set 'run mode' then run memory 0 then down arrow to the memory I want to test and run from there.

Hope this is helpful.

[PatrickLXdesker]

When using a jester make sure you have the fixtures not only selected, but tagged when programming. To tag them first select by clicking, release then click and hold. The LCD with the name of the fixture will turn from blue to white. Fixtures can forget what you're telling them to do if you don't tag them.

 

 

When programming I'd recommend starting at cue 10 and putting the following in beforehand: a state where all lamps are off, except any moving heads which are set to their home position with no effects, colours, gobos etc. This means going to my first cue is easier and any lamps don't have to go through any daft cycles to get there.

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

Patrick.

[Fil2012]

Thanks for all the help! I've run out of time to learn about this as last night was opening night! What I have ended up doing is programming basic stage lighting into the memories and putting all effects/mover/blinders onto the submasters. Therefore if any mover messes up or forgets then I can easily remove it without effecting stage lights!!! Not perfect but seems to work for just now. Think I need some training tho!!

[indyld]

I think many of the posters on this thread need some training as most the workarounds suggested seem to not really be aware of the fundamentals of moving light programming and standard concepts or terminology.

 

The trouble with the Zester ML is that it is frequently used by the untrained. I've even encountered people being trained by the untrained. Don't fall into the trap of learning from anyone that barely grasps moving light programing themselves. Go on a Cooper Controls course.

 

Edit to add: For an entry level ml desk, the Zester sure likes to make things complicated for a new user.

[LEdgeley]

I think many of the posters on this thread need some training as most the workarounds suggested seem to not really be aware of the fundamentals of moving light programming and standard concepts or terminology.

That's worrying; I thought that based on the limited information the OP provided the troubleshooting suggestions provided were all pretty sensible.

 

In the interests of furthering my own understanding of programming moving lights, which "workarounds" do you think showed a lack of understanding of the fundamentals of moving light programming?

[Fil2012]

Thanks indyld!! I definately intend on going on a course to learn properly cos this last few week have been a nightmare trying to 'learn as I use'

[indyld]

I think many of the posters on this thread need some training as most the workarounds suggested seem to not really be aware of the fundamentals of moving light programming and standard concepts or terminology.

That's worrying; I thought that based on the limited information the OP provided the troubleshooting suggestions provided were all pretty sensible.

 

In the interests of furthering my own understanding of programming moving lights, which "workarounds" do you think showed a lack of understanding of the fundamentals of moving light programming?

 

Just to be clear, I am not having a pop at individuals but I keep waiting for someone that actually understands and can explain it coherently.

 

Well, firstly the most obvious solution is to get the OP to take the desk into Full mode, not partial. But that is desk specific. It's the most common problem with new users that "don't understand" because it is a completely alien concept as it is, let alone the way that the Jester makes it even more so.

 

Although tagging has been mentioned, no one has used words like Block cue (or linked to an explanation) , tracking (same)or even that fully tagging (activating, insert word here) all attributes in a family and recording them as a palette ensures what you see is mostly what you get. While the OP may not know the term, they can learn by looking it up. Depending on how you playback a show, there is no need to do anything other than block the actual first state or create a blocked Sub as a safety. The is no need to start at cue 10 or keep homing fixtures or Tagging the whole fixture, otherwise just use Full mode or be competent in partial mode which is not where I would suggest new

people start.

 

Given the confusion and obvious inexperience of the OP the two obvious answers are Full mode and get training. Everything else is a bit of a stab or an explanation of how the poster deals with what appears to be a poorly understood workflow. One day at Zero would do everyone the world of good.

 

Even in inverted commas, fixtures or desks do not "forget" stuff, mentioned at least twice. Fixtures do nothing but act on instructions that are output from the desk. All other bother is down to inexperience and a lack of understanding by the user, hence do a course.

[LEdgeley]

Well, firstly the most obvious solution is to get the OP to take the desk into Full mode, not partial. But that is desk specific. It's the most common problem with new users that "don't understand" because it is a completely alien concept as it is, let alone the way that the Jester makes it even more so.

That's a good point, and Full mode is certainly more intuitive for a beginner. However, in my experience Full mode ends up causing more problems than it solves (e.g. where you want to be able to busk colours using a few subs on top of a live cue - if you used Full mode to record the subs you could/would end up changing the position/beamshape/intensity too)

 

Although tagging has been mentioned, no one has used words like Block cue (or linked to an explanation) , tracking (same)or even that fully tagging (activating, insert word here) all attributes in a family and recording them as a palette ensures what you see is mostly what you get.

I believe (I may be mistaken here) that the Jester ML is not a tracking desk, so a block cue doesn't really exist as a concept; all cues are block cues.

 

Given the confusion and obvious inexperience of the OP the two obvious answers are Full mode and get training. Everything else is a bit of a stab or an explanation of how the poster deals with what appears to be a poorly understood workflow. One day at Zero would do everyone the world of good.

 

Even in inverted commas, fixtures or desks do not "forget" stuff, mentioned at least twice. Fixtures do nothing but act on instructions that are output from the desk. All other bother is down to inexperience and a lack of understanding by the user, hence do a course.

Again, very good points. I'm pretty much entirely self-taught at programming moving lights (a couple of books and countless hours spent slaving over a hot Leap Frog), and I know there are some concepts that would have "clicked" for me a lot faster with some real training. One day I'm sure I'll be able to convince school to send me out on a course <pah!>.

[indyld]

I believe (I may be mistaken here) that the Jester ML is not a tracking desk, so a block cue doesn't really exist as a concept; all cues are block cues.

Although a cue list may not track (I can't remember tbh, as it's not how I've set up desks for people to use), the cues are not all block cues (I.e all attributes tagged or even all fixtures/ all attribtues tagged) and is precisely the reason the OP is having problems.

 

Understanding tracking is key to understanding how LTP attributes will behave when you are running multiple playbacks with some moving light attributes 'tagged' (ie. recorded and being played back) unless you hard 'block' them all in a similar way as you would on a tracking theatre stack. In this case, it is a hard block (how I teach recording of blackouts in a tracking desk to start with) rather than a soft block which is a blocking construct in a moving light desk and can usually be easily unblocked.

 

The importance of tracking here is the simple, yet confusing, concept that what you playback first has an effect on what you play back next based on what the Next has recorded in it.

 

Also, what I would term a hard block palette is a palette that has ALL of it's family 'tagged' so you get the Colour or Beam or Position etc. that you set when recalling the palette. Again, this is much easier for beginners instead of having a beam palette called up, out of focus and strobing when they are sure they recorded it looking right.

 

When I've taught the Jester ML (and to be frank, it isn't the most edifying experience) I've started beginners off in Full mode, got them used to tagging and thereby ensuring that whole fixtures are recorded each time so they see what they expect to. Depending on time in the session and where the group is at in their understanding, I introduce Partial mode with a bit of a warning along with the great things it can do for them. Some choose to explore further in their own time, some brains fall out and they say, oh no I think we will carry on with Full mode until we get better. Usually their desks have been supplied and installed in Partial mode and the guys have struggled to make much headway and only the keenest technicians persevere.