vinntec Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Hi - I am just putting together a fixture profile for some new lanterns which use 16 bit parameters for our Zero 88 Fat Frog. If I define them as such, they are correctly split into MSB-LSB but it takes an age to turn the thumb wheel to reach any of the higher settings. Before I split this into two 8 bit parameters (but will have to work out carry manually) is there anyway of, for instance, using a keyboard to jump to a high number when programming? I have scoured the manual and I think not, but just in case anyone knows different. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulDF Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 If you move the thumb wheels on the frog faster does it increase in an exponential fashion? Mine does when using 16 channel moving heads on pan and tilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 If you move the thumb wheels on the frog faster does it increase in an exponential fashion? Mine does when using 16 channel moving heads on pan and tilt.Hi Paul - aha, no I only tested them on PhantomFrog so far. I will give the real FF a go as soon as the current show is over at the end of next week. Sounds like Zero 88 had thought of it, but forget to mention it in the manual. Thanks for for the tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomHoward Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 They do on our Bullfrog as well, if you 'flick' the wheel it moves fairly quickly, doesn't move as slowly as the first few steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 They do on our Bullfrog as well, if you 'flick' the wheel it moves fairly quickly, doesn't move as slowly as the first few steps.Thanks Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted October 27, 2013 Author Share Posted October 27, 2013 Sorry to raise this issue again... I am comfortable with the parameters now and make use of the 16 bit support on the Fat Frog. However the one issue I have is with Intensity which can only be 8 bit. This gives me two options: first to use it as 8 bit (and defined as 16 bit in the fixture editor) to control only the MSB which leaves the second 8 bits (LSB) at zero - which is how Zero 88 do it in their fixture library. This means I only get coarse intensity control but I think this is probably OK (and as used in 8 bit mode of the fixture). The only option I can see is to move intensity to somewhere else and use a 16 bit parameter and label it as dimmer. The snag here is that this would make it LTP rather than HTP so grandmaster fading (which I don't think we have ever used) won't take them out. This doesn't sound like a big deal but I have a feeling there are some hidden pitfalls here... Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulDF Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 What are you trying to control? I don't really see an advantage of a 16 bit intensity channel, with an 8 bit it can control in less than 0.5% intensity jumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted October 27, 2013 Author Share Posted October 27, 2013 What are you trying to control? I don't really see an advantage of a 16 bit intensity channel, with an 8 bit it can control in less than 0.5% intensity jumps.Hi Paul - these are Philips Selecon PL series LEDs. To use in the 15 channel mode, then intensity is a 16 bit parameter as well as the colours - that's part of the lantern not my choice. If I changed to 9 channel mode then this sorts out the intensity but the colours also change to 8 bit parameters. I have tested a 15 channel profile on PhantomFrog to check that the second intensity channel which can be defined in Fixture Type Editor but is ignored by the FF (channel 2) is output as a zero, so I get coarse intensity control but full colour resolution. I think this is as good as the FF can manage, so just need to check if anyone else can see a problem with doing this. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRW Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 <Partially off-topic observation> A bit of food for thought... Now this may prove an unpopular comment/observation, but if you need to use fixtures / features of fixtures that have requirements beyond that which your console can work to, do you need to contemplate using another console? What sort of show is it? Is the 16 bit control of colours absolutely necessary? Or can you live without it in order to give yourself sensible control over the rest of the fixture? If the fixture can be set to normal 8-bit control, that implies that it can be used in the lower resolution mode adequately. I know we all strive to do our best on shows, and want them to look spot on perfect, but working within limitations, be that equipment/venue/budgetary is something that always needs to be thought about! *Dons hard hat and welding jacket* </end observation> Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted October 27, 2013 Author Share Posted October 27, 2013 Hi IanYou are of course correct. Except these 13 lanterns have been funded by the lighting designers themselves and our pockets are now bare. The new desk will have to come from the theatre's resources and unfortunately for us everything is going towards a building expansion. So we have to make do with the desk we currently have (which we also purchased ourselves two years ago!). We can only look with envy at a nearby house which has just ordered an MQ60 plus bells and whistles! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulDF Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Looking at the fixture creator it seems you can have intensity as 16 bit, I just can't see how to view the raw DMX outputs in phantom frog to try it! The frog just displays it as a % value as opposed to a DMX value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted October 27, 2013 Author Share Posted October 27, 2013 Looking at the fixture creator it seems you can have intensity as 16 bit, I just can't see how to view the raw DMX outputs in phantom frog to try it! The frog just displays it as a % value as opposed to a DMX value.If you look closely when you save the fixture file you will get a warning that the intensity parameter is 16 bit (it doesn't say so but means the second channel is allocated but not used in the desk itself). To see DMX outputs, press "outputs" then "+" (+ again will return to channels). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulDF Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Thanks, I didn't know how to do that! I take it that works on the real desk too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhole Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Looking at the fixture creator it seems you can have intensity as 16 bit (it doesn't say so but means the second channel is allocated but not used in the desk itself). The Zero 88 Fixture Tools are used across all our control consoles, and then each console just takes the info it needs. So, for example, the ORB Series use all the features of the Fixture Tools (gobo Images, colour values, details, etc etc) but as you go down the product lineup (or back in time, as in this case!) they use less and less of the information available within the library. Thanks, I didn't know how to do that! I take it that works on the real desk too The various Phantom software versions actually started life as internal software test tools which then became publicly available, so generally it's only Networking features that are different on Phantom Software compared to Desk Software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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