Rob_P Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Hi, I have a show coming up that needs a total of 11 radio mics. Not a problem. But... Due to the usual budget constraints, this particular group have found a set of 6 Trantec S4.16 mics on channel 38 that they can get from one of their members free of charge, but I would need to source the other 5. My usual go-to mics would be Sennheisers, either XSW or G3 depending on where I get them from, and I am concerned about mixing brands on a single channel, given the weirdness of inter-modulation products etc. To make things more complicated, the Trantecs only seem to have a "channel 1-16" switch rather than free-tunable frequencies. I have tracked down a list of frequencies but can't find a table corresponding these to channel numbers. Can anyone point me in the direction of a proper frequency table for them? Does anyone have experience of mixing these brands in this way? Would it be OK to keep the Trantecs at one end of the channel and the Sennheisers at the other, or would I be best moving some mics to Channel 70 to be safe? Maybe I should try to find some more Trantecs to hire in instead? Thanks! Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 From Canford's website...."The channel 38 models are programmed in three 'sets' of frequencies, one of which should be used at a single location: 606.600, 607.500, 608.150, 609.150, 610.550, 611.250, 613.150MHz are used in the 'Entertainment' set. The 'Community' set uses 607.825, 608.825, 610.250, 610.900 MHz. The 'Broadcast' set uses 606.950, 608.500, 609.500, 611.600 MHz. All the frequencies in any one set may be used simultaneously, so up to eight may be used at a single location. Note that the three sets are chosen to be 'stand alone' sets, they are not compatible with each other and should not be used together on one site. "It looks like 8 is your total number for that Trantec model. If you can source Sennheiser G3 you can get 6 in channel 70?Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Those frequencies (The Entertainment set) look pretty well spread throughout channel 38. Whilst it's not always as simple as finding a gap big enough, I think you'll struggle to sandwich some more channels in there. I went to the S5.3 range frequency list, so see if they've maybe missed out every other frequency, but it's not that simple, these are a completely different set. I'd echo the suggestions for using channel 70, or 2.4GHz (somebody must be hiring them these days. The Line 6's are surprisingly good and similar money to buy so I'd expect similar hire rates). Heck, VHF might do what you need. Just be careful that having these 8 "free" mics doesn't actually end up costing you more money in the long run by having to find another 6 that work with them. Getting technicalities like this over to the financial people in amateur groups is never easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 I can't comment specifically on the mic models you mention but I once tried to combine Trantec (5.5 system) and Sennheiser (back in the G2 era) mics on Channel 69. At that stage I had an Excel spreadsheet for working out IM problems and, entering the Trantec and Sennheiser specs I couldn't find sufficient frequencies--and a real world trial confirmed this. Their specs were just too different to find 11 compatible channels and ended up contacting JFMG and getting a temporary licence of a number of channels on Channel 67. Obviously, this is a different channel and different spec mics--but I think the advice to move the Channel 70 or even 2.4GHz is prudent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timtheenchanteruk Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 4.16 is max 8 in Ch38... the senns might be fine, but dont think the trantecs would take kindly to it. The G3s in Ch70 would be your best bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMitchell Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 @Rob, we have Trantec S5.5 six channel racks in stock. PM me with dates you need kit, if you'd like a quote. We're in RG8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 So Tony, you're saying he can have more than 8 channels in ch 38????? I thought the maximum number in that band was 8, as detailed above. He has 6, so needs 5 more somewhere that won't cause frequency issues. I guess the question is how many you can squeeze into 70 - certainly G3s can manage 5 - but most other brands can only manage 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_P Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 Great advice so far. Thanks very much. Well done to Simon Lewis for finding the info on the Canford site too - lots of searching on my part only turned up lots of out of date Trantec manuals. I did finally find a list of the channel 38 frequencies in a manual here: http://www.trantec.co.uk/documentation/S4.16RX2_manual.pdf There is one frequency missing from the "Entertainment" set in the Canford list - 609.950MHz Unfortunately I don't know of anyone with G3 mics on Chan 70. I think that I might have to fall back on the following plan:6 Trantecs at the bottom end on Chan 38 ("Entertainment" channels 1-6)1 XSW from my collection on one of the other frequencies in the "Entertainment" band, probably channel 8Hire in 4 mics on Channel 70 I was only asked to step in at the last minute when they realised that they didn't know what they were doing - in their words "we just need to know how to plug it all together". They had based their budget on the last show that I did for them, without noticing that this time they need 4 more mics! As for the "Oh, and can you try to find us a pair of 50" plasma displays for a fortnight..."! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMitchell Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 So Tony, you're saying he can have more than 8 channels in ch 38????? No, Paul. The OP mentioned hiring in Trantecs, hence my post offering S5.5. They would be on licenced frequencies in ch 39/40/41. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallumP93 Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 I don't have the frequencies to hand at the moment, but back in Feburary I worked on a show where we had 16 channels of radio - 8 Trantec in 38, 4 Sennheiser XS in 38 and 4 Sennheiser G2s. It all worked fine as far as I could tell (I was on lighting) - I will ask the guy who ran sound what frequencies we were using when I am at work tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I'll be interested to hear about this. The most I've reliably been able to reliably cram into a single 8MHz UHF channel is 12 mics--and even that is like the proverbial flying bumble bee in terms of IM calculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I'm also intrigued, I've managed 13 (just, when really pushed, with G3s) in Ch38 but they've got a lower deviation than the XSW and Trantec Mics. The G2s must have been in Ch70? The pessimist in me is that they all fitted in the tunable range of the receivers or some were still up in the Ch69/70 area. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I'm also intrigued, I've managed 13 (just, when really pushed, with G3s) in Ch38 but they've got a lower deviation than the XSW and Trantec Mics. The G2s must have been in Ch70? The pessimist in me is that they all fitted in the tunable range of the receivers or some were still up in the Ch69/70 area. Josh ...or pushing the guard band so they deviate outside Channel 38 or, worse, deliberately tuned into 37 or 39. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallumP93 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Hi All, I wasnt able to get the frequencies today so will have to try again on Monday. Sorry I seem to of confused some of you I thought I had written the G2s were in channel 70, hense 12 in 38 and 4 in 70 to give us the 16 we used. We did have another 4 XSWs avaliable to us but we were not going to be able to fit 16 into channel 38. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrolytic Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Sent you a message Rob_P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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