Moving Light Problem.

[mostlyharmless]

Right, I'm doing a show at the moment with 2 robe 250 spots, and a fat frog desk..

 

Basically, we cant get the desk to control the robes, could this be because we do not have a terminator on the end of the DMX line, as we where not supplyed with one..

 

Or can someone talk me through the process of setting them up? I've been through the manual and tried doing what it says, but the display on the fixtures flashes, which in the manual means it is not receiving a DMX signal?

 

If its just the terminator needed then we'll build one/ get one when we have to go to the hire company to get some DMX-XLR converters they forgot to put in, and the gels that someone helpfully forgot to order.

[peter]

It sounds to me as if there is a problem somewhere in your DMX link, which is resulting in the Robe's not recieving a DMX signal.

 

You should have:

 

Fat Frog, with a 5 pin DMX lead connected to either of the outputs, which then runs into the Robe units. I don't know if the Robe units take 5 or 3 pin signal cable, but I'm pretty sure they work on the correct polarity, so there will be no need for a phase correcting jumper. Remember that DMX daisy chains between units, using the Out or Thru of one unit to feed the signal onwards to the next.

 

Although DMX chains should always be terminated, this wouldn't give you a 'no signal' indication. Instead it would mean that the moving heads may act irrationally - juddering, or randomly moving.

 

What else is connected into your DMX chain, and in what order? Are you using good quality data cable (120ohm 2 core+screen)? Do the other devices work?

 

I assume you've set the DMX addresses on the Robe units, and patched them onto the Fat Frog (following the steps in the user manuals).

 

Hope some of this helps, and if you can answer the above questions we may be able to help you furthur.

 

 

Peter

[mostlyharmless]

It sounds to me as if there is a problem somewhere in your DMX link, which is resulting in the Robe's not recieving a DMX signal.

 

You should have:

 

Fat Frog, with a 5 pin DMX lead connected to either of the outputs, which then runs into the Robe units.  I don't know if the Robe units take 5 or 3 pin signal cable, but I'm pretty sure they work on the correct polarity, so there will be no need for a phase correcting jumper.  Remember that DMX daisy chains between units, using the Out or Thru of one unit to feed the signal onwards to the next. 

Yes, we have a DMX cable running from the frog, into the demux (sp?) unit for the dimmers then into the robes one after the other, with a 5pin to 3 pin converter after the demux (sp?), we've also tried bypassing the dimmer and going straight into the movers to see if we get a beter result, but the same thing happened..We've also replaced all of the bables we are using and they all seem fine.

Although DMX chains should always be terminated, this wouldn't give you a 'no signal' indication.  Instead it would mean that the moving heads may act irrationally - juddering, or randomly moving. 

 

What else is connected into your DMX chain, and in what order?  Are you using good quality data cable (120ohm 2 core+screen)?  Do the other devices work?

 

I assume you've set the DMX addresses on the Robe units, and patched them onto the Fat Frog (following the steps in the user manuals). 

Yep all the other devices work, well the ones we can plug in untill we get the leads to get the hazer working. And we care using the cable supplyed by the hire company.

 

I thinkve set the DMX addresses, its just whether we have done this right..

What we did was set a channel on the movers, then set the corresponding chanel on the desk, I think..

Hope some of this helps, and if you can answer the above questions we may be able to help you furthur.

 

 

Peter

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[v8dve]

Check the Robes are patched from Channel 49. The Fixture controls start at 49.

[vinny baby]

Doesnt matter if you set the robes, and patch them correctly if the display is still flashing on the robes it means that there is no DMX signal.

 

Have you checked that the polarity is correct.

 

on the Robe units the DMX config is

 

pin 1 (screen/earth)

pin 2 (-)

pin 3 (+)

 

It is the same on the Fat frog.

 

the frog has two 5 pin out puts for two seperate DMX universes. The robe units have XLR3 in/out.

 

Have you tried putting your dimmers on one DMX universe and the robes on the other??

 

Also try patching the robes again.

 

Ive had no problems so far with Robe units and the frog desks.

 

even if you dont patch the units into the desk you should still get DMX passing into the fixtures and the display on the units should look like eg: "A032" and the display should not be flashing.

[mostlyharmless]

Cheers, ill have a look at them tomorrow and see if I can work it out, its probberally something really silly we are not doing.

[peter]

the frog has two 5 pin out puts for two seperate DMX universes. The robe units have XLR3 in/out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Er... no. The Fat Frog has two DMX outputs, which output the same data. The Bull Frog and Mambo Frog (and Frog Box) have two universes of DMX.

[vinny baby]

sorry my bad!

 

ive never really seen the point in having two outputs that out-put the same data.

[gareth]

Check continuity of your data cable. Also, check the wiring of the 3-pin/5-pin jumpers - check that pin 1 goes to pin 1, etc. (On a 5-pin XLR the pins run 1 to 5 in order, but it's different on a 3-pin - go by the pin number which is embossed on the connector, not the physical location of the pins.)

[The Giant with Laser Eyes]

MostlyHarmless / Chris...

 

I work with chris anyway...

We set the fixtures to different DMX addresses, and then I patched those address on to frog. But the units still flashed...

 

I think the problem might be the 5pin - 3pin convertor cable, it might be that it is out of phase?

 

The units also didnt come with 120ohm 3pin termination sockets, so I am assume they have a built in switched system...

 

Thanks for you replies,

LG

[nickb12345]

ive never really seen the point in having two outputs that out-put the same data.

 

If you have 2 DMX runs saves you needing a splitter.

 

Stage & FOH

Movers & Dimmers

Movers and Dimmers & Wireless Transmitter (for people with lots of £)

Also with more than 16 (I think) devices on one universe, you can have double if you use the 2 ports seperatly.

 

 

At our collage we use one to go to FOH movers (easier to take it out desk and straight over grid) and one to dimmers and then onto stage movers.

 

 

Nick

[vinny baby]

yeah I supose, but I find it more easy to run one line of DMX to a stage then spilt it.

 

I supose it could be of use as a back up if the main feed of DMX was to go down.

 

 

 

The units also didnt come with 120ohm 3pin termination sockets, so I am assume they have a built in switched system...

 

The Robe units dont have built in termination as im aware, but seing as your not running a huge rig, I dont see the lack of termination greatly affecting anything. Although it is good practice to use one anyway.

 

like we have mentioned, try using a new 5-3 pin converter, that is probably where the fault is.

 

should be

 

1 - 1

2 - 2

3 - 3

4 spare

5 spare

 

vince

[Nicktaylor]

sorry my bad!

 

ive never really seen the point in having two outputs that out-put the same data.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well I like being able to run the DMX control to the FOH position for instance along with the regular line to the packs. Rather than looping through and all the way back again.

 

The point is the outputs are buffered so a problem on one side should not affect the other

 

Back to the original problem. I would be inclined to set the DMX start address at 1 on the unit to see what control you have on the faders. Once that is sorted, then put it back the address as set for the fixture

[Nick512]

The flashing display on the robes mean that they are not getting any data of any kind ie good or bad. This points to a cable problem as you have tested the desk with other fixtures.

 

as vinny said check your 5 - 3 converters are wired correctly and also check you are using data cable such as datasafe instead of mic cable as it is not suitable for DMX.

 

Also if possible check you cable into the other fixture first to see if it is a problem with the first fixtures DMX port. (this is rare as the in/out ports are hard wired together).

 

If none of this works then try to plug your cable into another 3pin fixture to check DMX is being received.

 

If it is then it is then you have faulty unity, probably the main card in the base. it has a DMX driver chip on, if you were provided with spares you should have one of these so try swapping this (Only do this if you are completely happy with your level of competence as doing this bit wrong can turn you fixture into a toaster!!!)

 

One final thought if you have another source of DMX try plugging the unit into that to see if the display stops flashing, if so you have a desk problem, and there I cannot help as I have no idea about frogs of any kind....

 

Good luck

[road]

first of all terminating DMX is a load of bull whip ive run riggs in the past with 60 heads and no termination and all went well but it can help some times when going through dimmers

 

if the phase's in the XLR are ok then what about the personalitys in the desk have you checked that they are ok ive had problems with robes in the past and had to make my own personality disk up for them zero 88 has a download for this you will need to get a manual for the fixture to do this also