Amplifier outputs

[BTSmith96]

I am looking to buy a new amplifier to go with speakers I already have. I've so far been using balanced speaker cable – with the ends just twisted and inserted into the connections on both amp and speaker. I'm now looking for an amp with jack outputs (the speakers have jack inputs). I just wanted clarification (as I cannot find anywhere else online): are jack-to-jack speaker cables supposed to be balanced or unbalanced? – I assumed that they'd be balanced, since the output I currently use is, but the only speaker cable I can find is unbalanced.

 

Thanks for the help!

 

- Ben

 

Moderation:

This thread has gone off at a bit of a tangent. The original post was basically asking whether jacks, binding posts or speakons were advised, but the use of "balanced" in the question derailed the conversation a bit, so we ended up with two discussions in the one thread. I'm going to try to split them out into 2 separate discussions, but inevitably something will end up in the wrong thread...

[paulears]

ALL speaker connections are balanced, as there are only two terminals on the speaker, and speaker cables don't have screens.

 

To be honest, jack plugs for speaker connections are the most horrible, unreliable and accident waiting to happen connections you can imagine. There is a proper reliable speaker connector that decent equipment has fitted - calle a speakon. They insert, then twist and lock, so cannot fall out. Jack plugs do this so easily, often with just the weight of a cable - and most importantly, the little spring contacts have such a tiny surface area where they make the connection, they can oxidise, wear and become intermittent. The hi fi connectors that let you put bare wire in, then turn to lock are far better than jack plugs.

 

Where the confusion comes in is that jack to jack cables for low level audio can be unbalanced - as in having a centre conductor and a screen which also serves as the circuit return (as in guitar unbalanced jack to jacks). You can have 3 circuit jack to jacks, which can be use as balanced connections - with the audio circuit on the tip and ring, with a screen on the sleeve, or just to confuse, this could be an unbalanced cable with the screen on the sleeve, and circuit 1 on the tip, leaving circuit 2 on the ring.

 

So one cable could be balanced, or unbalanced - depending on what you are doing.

 

Jack to jack speaker cables SHOULD be wired with two conductor cable, with no screen - many people using that orange stuff for lawnmowers, simply so they don't get it mixed up with a guitar cable.

 

Hopefully, that's the info you need.

[BTSmith96]

Cheers, that helps.

 

My speakers (250w ekho) have a jack in, and the general wire connection, but no speakon. Would you recommend sticking to the wire, then, as opposed to jack-to-jack, or speakon-to-jack (speakon from amp, jack in speaker)?

 

Thanks again.

 

- Ben

[chelgrian]

My speakers (250w ekho) have a jack in, and the general wire connection, but no speakon. Would you recommend sticking to the wire, then, as opposed to jack-to-jack, or speakon-to-jack (speakon from amp, jack in speaker)?

 

It depends how often you are going to plug and unplug them, the hazard with bare wires is that you accidentally short the amplifier outputs due to stray bits of wire. Most amplifiers have protection against this sort of thing however at the very cheap end of the market, which I suspect you are looking at to go with speakers like this, adequate output protection on the amp may not be there.

 

If they are to be pretty much fixed install then I'd go with bare wire to bare wire, and buy something like Studio Spares own brand speaker cable

 

http://www.studiospares.com/cable-speaker-/speaker-cable-2x25mm/invt/548320

 

If they are going to be plugged and unplugged a lot then I'd make Speak-on to Jack leads using the same sort of cable and using lurid colours for the jacks to remind you not to plug them in to something meant for signal. Speak-ons are extremely easy to assemble you just need a small enough allen key however the jacks will probably require soldering.

 

If you aren't confident doing the soldering yourself ask around in the science department at your school, there's probably someone who can help.

 

As to what amp to buy that's hard as there is not enough information about the speakers power handling capabilities on Ekho's website. It says 250 Watts at 8 Ohms but it doesn't say if that is RMS or 'Program' power handling which makes a big difference. Given the lack of information I'm going to assume it's 'program' and therefore the actual continuous power handling of the speakers is more like 120W. In which case something like:

 

http://www.cie-group.com/shop/audio-visual_1/amplifiers_6/low-z-multi-channel-amplifiers_42/stereo-amplifier-250w--250w-4ohm_861.php

 

Will do what you need.

 

Oh finally the reason you are probably confused about the jack plugs is that speakers use 2 wires and no screen therefore use mono or unbalanced jack connections rather than stereo or balanced jack connectors which have three contacts which are used for signal, anti-signal and screen when used for balanced signal connections.

 

It's a bit difficult to explain the difference between the way transmission of audio signals works and the way transmission from a power amp to a speaker works in text, again the first port of call is probably to ask whoever teaches physics at your school.

[BTSmith96]

I'm looking at something like this amp: http://www.electromarket.ie/dda0150

 

It says (at 8 ohms) RMS output 105, MAX output 210, so I think that should be fine. I know it's a cheap one, but it's not for really rigorous usage. I'll mostly be using them for some rehearsals (I'm a keyboard player, so require amplification), occasionally watching films on a projector in a place without permanent sound, and the odd small studio based theatrical production. It really won't be travelling too much at all, though.

 

I feel at the moment like the best idea might be speakon to jack – would you think, in this scenario, that this cabling setup would work, or should I stick to bare wire? – also, what are the general views on cables like this? http://www.amazon.co...ker+cable+-pyle

 

Cheers,

 

- Ben

[BTSmith96]

It seems, looking at it as a whole, that with these speakers it might be best just to continue using bare cable. – I was looking to see if jacks would be a useful, time-saving alternative, but it seems they're more trouble than they're worth!

 

I'll definitely check my next speakers when I upgrade for speakon inputs, though!

 

- Ben

[BTSmith96]

Either fit speakons to your amps and cabs or make up some short speakon to bare ends which you can connect to the terminals and leave on the kit, secured with tiewraps or p clips.

 

For the purpose of creating a permanent speakon extension, I have seen elsewhere (googling) that it is possible just to strip a cable down to get the bare wires, which you could fit permanently. Would you recommend this? – my theory was to buy a – say – 1m speakon, cut it in half, and put the bare cables in, secure it to reduce strain, and then use speakon cables to and from the amp (along with a F-to-F coupler)

 

Should this work? Or would you recommend making the single speakon terminal myself?

 

- Ben

 

 

 

[niclights]

It would work. A bit messy having to use couplers. Alternatively there are in-line male speakon's available in the STX series (just use two of the four poles). Note that normally you would try to use an amplifier that was more powerful than the speakers. This is to avoid clipping at the amplifier which might damage a driver, even at a lower power than the speakers can handle. Typically they will cope with more than they say, especially if it's only momentary. That said, if you can guarantee you won't overdrive the amp then you will be fine.

[BTSmith96]

It would work. A bit messy having to use couplers at both ends though. The typical solution to this would be to rack-mount the amplifier and have the male speakon's on a rack panel. Alternatively there are in-line male speakon's available in the STX series.

 

The amp I was looking into getting would have speakon outputs, but my speakers don't – so, the coupler should only be speaker end.

[niclights]

I edited after seeing that. Always a risky business....

[BTSmith96]

Cheers.

 

I have been using a 2x 250w amplifier so far (the cheap skytronic "500w" one that ships with lots of speakers from amazon) – and that has brilliant sound for the price. I think that maxed / RMS'ed lower at 8 ohms, and has served me fine. Hopefully 2x 300w will be okay.

 

- Ben

[MarkPAman]

Unless I've missed it, I'm surprised nobody's suggested fitting a speakon socket to the speaker. It's usually a fairly quick and easy job unless the existing connectors are on the same board as the crossover.

[Oldradiohand]

Unless I've missed it, I'm surprised nobody's suggested fitting a speakon socket to the speaker. It's usually a fairly quick and easy job unless the existing connectors are on the same board as the crossover.

 

See my previous post......

[MarkPAman]

See my previous post......

[p.k.roberts]

This seems to have got way off topic from the original question, so my answer to the OP would be that whether or not you are or are not (or think you are or are not) using 'balanced' speaker cables really doesn't matter here. You just need decent, two core cable. In this low power and low cost application, Speakon to jack cables will work absolutely fine and if the system is going to be set up and taken down with any frequency then the jack connectors, although not brilliant, will be less hassle and less prone to shorting than bare ended cables and screw terminals.

TBH, it looks like the replacement amp you linked to is no better and possibly worse than the amplifier you already have, I don't think it would improve your system, so I wouldn't really waste your money.