Mixing LED colours on a Fat Frog

[vinntec]

I am probably being very dozy but setting-up for our fashion show yesterday using a lot of conventionals plus some LED lanterns to light the backdrop. What I would normally do (if I was using floods for this) would be to mix them using the sliders or submasters to whatever colour the director wants. So I tried to use submasters to control the LEDs in a similar way and ran into all sorts of problems:

• The submasters record whatever state the LEDs were in which overrides anything I want to do (so mainly makes them fade out).
• If I try and use submasters to mix colours (by having one for each colour) then they crossfade to the last one to move.

Obviously it is a problem with how LTP is handled but I cannot see any combination of settings which allows me to mix conventional states using some submasters and mix LED colours using some others.

 

I have got around it by turning off the recording of fixture data in submasters using super-user so I can now use conventional submasters no problem. The snag is that then I can only mix LED colours by using the control wheels - it is doable by awkward,

 

Is this how it is (yes I know I could record complete cues but that won't work here), or have I missed something obvious?

 

 

Thanks -- Peter

 

 

 

[boatman]

It would probably help if you could tell us which LED lanterns you are using and how they are configured. From the symptoms of your problems, it sounds as though you have them set up as RGBY and aren't controlling the intensity channel. However, that's just a guess.

[vinntec]

It would probably help if you could tell us which LED lanterns you are using and how they are configured. From the symptoms of your problems, it sounds as though you have them set up as RGBY and aren't controlling the intensity channel. However, that's just a guess.

Hi - no they are defined as RGBWI (colours + intensity) - Lanta PAR 64 Fireball Quad. It sounds like you have a way of doing this, so any chance of an idiot's guide step by step how to do it? I am semi expert in FF so don't need a lot of detail and just had a feeling the way I was setting things up was wrong! The manual is no help as it just repeats the same terms again and again (like what the LTP trigger does!).

 

Thanks - Peter

[Shez]

It sounds like when recording to subs, you're recording zero values for the channels you don't want e.g. for a red sub, rather than containing R:255 and nothing else, it contains R:255 G:0 B:0 which if LTP won't mix properly.

It's been too long since I used a frog (before LED fixtures were even remotely common!) to offer a solution I'm afraid. Although setting each colour channel in the personality to be HTP would help would it not?

[litemog]

 

I have got around it by turning off the recording of fixture data in submasters using super-user so I can now use conventional submasters no problem. The snag is that then I can only mix LED colours by using the control wheels - it is doable by awkward,

 

 

Is this the same as turning off the LTP trigger in the submaster settings?

 

Also, how many LED units are you using and how much individual control of the units do you need. One option would be to assign the Frog fixtures as conventional dimmers and then record the relevant control channels to submasters (with LTP trigger off).

[PaulDF]

How many conventional dimmers channels are you using? The fat frog will control up to 48 in wide, albeit I am now using a bullfrog I still prefer to use the presets for LED PAR cans.

Then transfer to memory and back to submaster allowing me to mix as I like. I only have cheap LED par cans and find the dimming curve isn't anywhere near that of a conventional dimmer and they are a bit snappy.

 

There is also a setting in the desk which allows partial or full transfer of fixture settings to the memory, don't know if this will help as I haven't used it for ages but maybe this will trigger someone else's memory!

[vinntec]

How many conventional dimmers channels are you using? The fat frog will control up to 48 in wide, albeit I am now using a bullfrog I still prefer to use the presets for LED PAR cans.

Hi Paul - with recording of fixture data disabled on submasters and the LEDs repatched for channels 37+ (we have only 36 dimmers), I was able to do as you suggested and the desk now treats the LEDs as individual intensity channels. I had to unpatch the fixture controls to do it, but otherwise was straightforward to do. This means I can mix the conventionals with submasters as normal and necessary for a live fashion show and yet can also mix RGBW on subs as well now. There is probably a proper way of doing it, but this works much better than using the wheels! Peter