New Budget Desk

[Stewart Newlands]

I need a new desk, I am loking at the midas venice, A&H Gl2/3000 series and the soundcraft GB4, as I do power first, lamps second and sound third I thought I would canvass for ideas.

[Mr.Si]

A&H GL3300 or 2200 - go second hand too - from a respectable sound company and it'll prob be flightcased aswell.

 

never used any of the desks, but for the money, I think A&H just win by far.

 

Couple of questions:

How many channels were ya after?

What other requirments are you after?

 

Ta, Simon

[paulears]

Do you have the budget for the desks you mention?

 

All of them are worth considering - each has some small design features that may tip the balance. What do you want it to do? More info and we can probably help with some sensible comment. I've used the Midas and A&H but not yet bumped into the GB4. It seems a contender, but I've not yet heard anything about reliability.

paul

[Stewart Newlands]

Do you have the budget for the desks you mention?

 

All of them are worth considering - each has some small design features that may tip the balance. What do you want it to do? More info and we can probably help  with some sensible comment. I've used the Midas and A&H but not yet bumped into the GB4. It seems a contender, but I've not yet heard anything about reliability.

paul

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry, I should have included more information. I have the funds, and have looked at second hand but I will get a good price and support by going for new.

 

I need a low/mid end desk that will be used in different locations buy many people. 24 or 32ch (prob 32). I like the midas but it is a flat PCB unit so changing parts in time may be an issue. A&H GLs are good but some people don't like the order of the pots. The GB4 is a newer product not that many out there yet but it has some nice bits is quiet and is channel card PCB, I even thought of an MH3 but cant justify spending that sort of money on a desk that may get some abuse, and will possibly spend time in beer filled smaller venues.

[paulears]

I didn't realise it had individual pcb's - that makes it a serious contender. I know it has dual psu capability - looks like reliability has been well thought through. At this price point, it may be possible to get to try one out to make a more considered decision.

 

Best of luck - The Soundcraft looks the best spec on paper, but I'd like to use one before making my mind up. Let us know how it goes

Paul

[Bobbsy]

Between the Midas Venice and the Allen & Heath contenders, I'd likely go with Allen and Heath. The "Baby Midas" has 60mm faders and a fairly cramped control surface which I find awkward for serious mixing. Although the mic pres and the EQ are both very nice, the "baby Midas" is not in the same league as it's big brothers and I think you're paying a surcharge for the name.

 

In the A&H range, there are differences between the GL2200 and GL3300, so which one you can actually afford will affect the comparison with the Soundcraft quite a lot. I'd say the most fair comparison would be the GL2200 to the GB4 since they're both 4 group mixers. I don't know enough about your needs to comment on whether 4 or 8 group (which the 3300 has) is appropriate for you.

 

As for the GB4, like the others here, I've never had a chance to use one. Certainly it has a lot of features and is worth a look....and I've always had good results from the Soundcraft name.

 

Let us know which you decide...and if it's GB4, how bout a review!?!?

 

Bob

[James]

Features wise the Verona is more of a match for the other desks you mentioned than the Venice but is in more of the MH3 market.

 

Have you considered the GB8 by the way?

 

James

[Stewart Newlands]

Features wise the Verona is more of a match for the other desks you mentioned than the Venice but is in more of the MH3 market.

 

Have you considered the GB8 by the way?

 

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its a GB8/32, one of the first in the uk, I will give the blue room a review after we have got to know it. I had used a GB4 in 2004 it is a nice desk but now the 8 bus is shipping It was worth the extra.

[marc]

Go for the Midas, the A&G eq's do naff all, they are rubbish, the Midas is a very small foot print for the features, but its rock solid and hard to break,

 

The Faders on the A&G are longer, but feel rubbish, all flappy and loose, so go for the Venice, you wont regret it, yes it might be more expensive, but quality has to be paid for.

 

The only saving grace for the A&G is that its easy to do monitors with, but then you have a 31 band eq over each mix so the eq is less of a problem, and also the mix is done on the Aux pots which feel a hell of a lot better compared to the faders!

 

Marc

[david.elsbury]

The Faders on the A&G are longer, but feel rubbish, all flappy and loose, so go for the Venice, you wont regret it, yes it might be more expensive, but quality has to be paid for.

Marc

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you mean A&H (Allen and Heath)?

Just to add my opinion, the Allen and Heath desks are great, lots of bang-for-buck and well constructed.

David

[marc]

the Allen and Heaths ( sorry getting carried away with Grief :( ) are great desks for the money yes, but when compared to a midas there is no contest.

 

Hence the vast cost difference I imagine!

 

Marc

[Bobbsy]

the Allen and Heaths ( sorry getting carried away with Grief  :( ) are great desks for the money yes, but when compared to a midas there is no contest.

 

Hence the vast cost difference I imagine!

 

Marc

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The mic pre-amps and EQ section on the Midas Venice are nice...but IMHO not THAT much better than the A&H to make up the price difference.

 

Add to that the "economy" construction of the Venice (as opposed to it's big brothers) and the use of hard-to-mix-on 60mm faders, and I really couldn't recommend the Venice. I really think you're paying a hefty surcharge for the "name" rather than any quality or operational gains. Let's not forget, the new cheaper Midas desks are more from the DDA stable than Midas. Okay desks, but not at an inflated price.

 

....and I don't have any issues with the "feel" of the A&H faders either...they're light but stay where they're put!

 

Bob

[Andrew C]

I'm following this thread with some interest, due to the death-in-service of a Spirit 16-4-2. As part of the replacement review, I'm kicking around the idea of going digital, possibly a Soundcraft 328 XD. £1500 from here.

 

I might consider going for an additional A/D converter that connects via TDIF if I can locate the box on the stage remote from the desk. Now, following quite a bit of Goggling, I can't find details of the cable used, and how long a cable is allowed by the specification. Any clues/thoughts anyone?

[Bobbsy]

Going by memory, the maximum length for a TDIF connection is around 15 feet...I'm away from my files now so if I'm wrong, I'm sure somebody will correct me! However, I'd be fairly certain that your idea of locating the spare A to D onstage is likely not a flyer.

 

There are a couple of systems which will let you work this way, using CAT5 to link to the stage...I've used one called Audiorail which was okay. However, I did find it a bit of a pain having the gain trims remote from the board....I remain undecided on which is the best compromise.

 

I've mixed several shows on the 324 Live and quite liked the user interface which was good for it's time. The 328 was aimed more at project studio use so might not be quite as clever at the things you want for live work, though they certainly have been used. AFAIK, the 324 has been discontinued and the price fell dramatically just before this happened...so perhaps the 328 is going that route too.

 

Certainly not a bad mixer for the price...but if you're considering going digital you should also look at the Behringer DDX3216 or the Yamaha 01V96. The Behringer sells for about half what you plan to pay for the Soundcraft, and with clever shopping you should be able to get the Yamaha for around the same. Both have a user interface which has taken onboard a lot of user comment since the earlier mixers and both are now getting a lot of use in live situations.

 

As a general comment, I made the move to digital boards last summer (A DM2000, DM1000, and a Behringer DDX3216, along with various interface boards and ADA8000 converters now reside in my inventory) and have no regrets whatsoever...whichever system you choose I think you'll like digits!

 

Bob

[Dave]

Go for the Midas, the A&G eq's do naff all, they are rubbish

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that's more than a bit of an exaggeration (as the owner of two A&H's and one Soundcraft).

 

Yes, A&H and Soundcraft are cheap and cheerful compared to Midas, but few engineers would moan at having to use one, unlike other budget mixers such as Mackie and Behringer. And I'm not a fan of the ergonomics of the Venice either.

 

But I have no problem with anything made by A&H, Soundcraft or Midas, and they will all do you well - the decision comes down to the feature set you need and your budget.