2 projectors, 2 digispots, how to connect them

[timtheenchanteruk]

Im looking at ways to link up 2 projectors and 2 digispots to display various bits and pieces, trouble is, its a little more complex than usual, and my usual av suppliers don't have anything to do what I'm looking for.

 

We have 2 projectors either side of pros, which we have previously used IMAG and some pre-rendered video onto for various bits, with each screen just showing the same thing.

This year we are looking at expanding this a bit, and adding a couple of digispots on the stage, to project on various bits of the stage/set etc.

What I want to be able to do is put different things in different places.

IE, IMAG on the screens, and some sort of image/video on the digis, or Imag on the screens, and image/vid spread over the 2 digis (ie if we have them projecting onto the back for a backdrop) or I also want to be able to spread things accross all 4 outputs.

 

I was hoping to have the lx control position etc of the digis, with the video operator controlling the content.

so, what's bit of hardware do I need in there to control these outputs in this way? I'm a bit bogged at the mo, I thought it would be a relatively simple solution, which it may well be if I know what I need to ask for!!

[ImagineerTom]

This is what a Media Server is for (hippotiser, etc) as it acts as the clever switching/stretching/playback gadget that can be triggered by simple lighting cues... it may well be a bit out of your price range though and generally requires a trained crew member to program and upload the content. There are cheaper media servers out there but they all require a certain level of technical skill by someone to program and bug-fix them.

 

A slightly simpler solution may be to get a matrix switcher - the box of tricks that made video walls made from multiple TV screens work - as they tend to have built in programs accessed via simple controls that enable you to route images to one particular monitor, swap them around, wipe etc. As video walls have gone out of fashion you see them being sold for peanuts (even on ebay) so for a £100 or so you could have a simple, no programming required pushbutton controller in the lighting box that takes care of all the routing whilst accepting simple video-in feeds from anyone you like.

[timtheenchanteruk]

Cheers, this is what I thought, but all my suppliers, only have single output hippos, and suggested routing it though chamsys, which to me sound rather messy to say the least.

matrix switcher may be worth me looking at, would be useful for other stuff too.

 

possibly should have said I am looking at rental rather than buying, its still at the "can we afford it" stage at the moment, so looking at the how to, and the how much!

[jason5d]

You need a different kind of video server - not a hippo.

We build our own, it will do all that you need and more

It has live hdsdi cam ins, spread video across multi-screens

(ours have 10 dvi outs) and a time line.

 

It also has DMX and mapping - useful for your digispots

 

They cost a lot less than hippos, outspec them and are

so much easier to use.

You can hire one of ours or come see.

If you want one let us know.

 

regards

[Joe Bleasdale]

Just to clarify... These are the Robe Digispots yes..?

 

2 projectors and 2 digis still only equal 4 required seperate outputs from a server. Realistically it could probably be done with two outputs quite easily. One Arkaos/Hippo/Catalyst/other server, an a decent operator could accomplish it easily.

 

If your looking to hire someone with the kit and knowledge to do it - PM me.

 

Thanks & good luck.

[AHYoung]

Its a straigtforward job for whatever your server of choice is, id use catalyst, but its not down to the hardware, but the operator as if youve never done this before be warned as its a steep learning curve, think walking up to a high end lighting board thats neither patched or programmed for the first time with no prior knowledge, its not that tricky, but its going to take a while... As you dont know what hardware you need, im assuming you dont have the programming experience, id advise getting a programmer to assist as if you give them a decent brief- they should be able to spec the right hardware. Id use catalyst myself, but thats just what im used to.

 

 

[smalljoshua]

Which Digispots do you have? They all come with Media Servers built in to them, these actually aren't that bad either!

 

That leaves you with the issue of the other two projectors, these can both be easily fed from a single server (multiple outputs). What format is the live imagery in? The Digispots will all take Composite and svideo in. Put all the cameras into a matrix, control it from RS232 and program the routing into the control surface when you set it up to control everything else.

 

This isn't a complex setup by any means, just not run of the mill. Something that anyone who's got experience with multiple head media servers wouldn't struggle with. What is the style of the show that this is being used in?

 

As with the others, if you do feel that this is something you want to get someone in on, I can supply everything needed to make this work, program and operate for you.

 

PM me if you like.

 

Josh

[cedd]

Is this at one of the local venues Tim? YTH has its' own particular quirks when it comes to hanging digispots due to the height of the Front of House bars Vs the height of the pros arch. One thing we discovered recently (should have tried it years ago, but plotting time and chance to "play" is never in our favour!) is that it's well worth the extra effort to pull in Cat 5 to each digispot and upload your media via FTP. We pulled in quite a lot of Cat 5 to Front of House when we did the sound system, so it's there to be used and will save you a lot of trips up ladders with a memory stick!

 

If it's GT then it'll take some real thought and some brave ladder work to get them up there safely - they're flipping heavy!

 

I'd strongly suggest getting a spare! They've proven less than reliable for us over the years! Particularly watch out for the lenses falling off the front of the projectors! Once you have to go up to fix something, be prepared to spend some time realigning them - no matter how careful you are, they always seem to need the stitch re-doing!

[timtheenchanteruk]

cheers, this idea could quite possibly be shelved, at least for now, but it does give me some stuff to look at though.

Cedd, it would be at GT, the spots would be on stage (ideally) might take a bit of rigging, but anythings possible, real issue would be anyone to program the stuff, not sure why, but didnt think it would be that complex a task, Ive set stuff up (fixed) just split or stiched, but nothing that would do it dynamically (ie swap between) if that makes sense

[Nicktaylor]

As a slight aside. Can the experts here suggest a fairly economic server to run say four outputs. For now I need two but might as well have expansion in mind and I do want separate images as an option

[paulears]

Didn't think it would be a complex task. I went on the Hippo course before tackling one job, and even after doing that it was pretty tough going. I think I'd get somebody in if I was doing it again - far too difficult to do if you don't do it regularly - after three weeks of doing the course, I'd forgotten big chunks.

[AHYoung]

As a slight aside. Can the experts here suggest a fairly economic server to run say four outputs. For now I need two but might as well have expansion in mind and I do want separate images as an option

 

you dont actually need 4 physical outputs from your server, you would generally use a matrox triple head or datapath x4 to derive several lower resolution ouputs from one high res one. My suggestion on cost effective would be to run the basic catalyst software on a older mac pro via a matrox dual head to go or similar to give you 2 programme outs plus your control screen. You can upgrade the software as you neeed the extra features and add capture cards to the mac plus a datapath x4 or triple head to give 4 outs if and when you need them.

 

 

There is no such thing as a cheap media server, but if you go for a buy the software, build your own server option such as catalyst on mac or resolume arena on pc, you can at least buy the bits you need when you need them.

[smalljoshua]

I'm sure sleepytom will be along soon with his (excellent) advice on Resolume machines. My experience is with having a couple of different spec machines running Resolume Arena over the last 12 months. The first one was i5-2500 O/C to 3.8GHz (3rd party cooler) Windows 7 x64 with 16GB Ram, Raid 5 HDD and ATI/AMD Radeon HD5850 1GB GDDR5. That was happy doing a pair of full HD outputs at over 30fps (with 3 layers running DVX video).

 

My current machine is an i7-920 as stock, 12GB Ram, Raid 0 SSD, ATI/AMD Radeon HD6870 2GB GDDR5 Eyefinity. This card, in theory should let me get 5 decent resolution outputs with a 6th for the Control Monitor. The entire machine cost less to build (Hardware cost) than an X4 costs new.

 

Josh

[sleepytom]

Resolume runs pretty well on a decent machine these days. I too have machines with ATI Eyefinity cards, my 6 output HD5870 works well, though the fancy things which the card is supposed to do with display groupings are in reality too complex to setup and too prone to breaking for use on shows. Fortunately with the advanced output mapper in resolume you don't need to use any of the ATI functions.

 

For lowend multiscreen shows (ie without a spyder or similar display controller) I run the Resolume ATI outputs into a VGA matrix switch - this helps with EDID issues and allows easy monitoring of outputs. You can also have some kind of backup source into the matrix so you have a fallback in case of a crash.

 

Resolume is really easy to use for mutliscreen shows, it has a great interface which makes it simple to program your cues which can then be recalled via DMX/Artnet. You could program the show so the LX Op recalled all the different states from the lighting desk, leaving the video guy free to direct IMAG cameras. Resolume can accept the video from a vision mixer via a blackmagic capture card with very low latency (1 frame) - running IMAG via it is acceptable (ideally genlock the camera system to minimise upstream latency).

 

I'd be happy to help with advice / rental / programming support if you would like. drop me a line at tom[at]sleepytom[dot]co[dot]uk

[benweblight]

Edit: Ooops...posted this in wrong thread. Mods please remove.