DJ bradderz Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Hi all, had a strange request for this years production. They want the band at the back of stage, behind a 'curtain', but when I light the band, they need to be seen, and the rest of the time its just a curtain. Normally I'd guess its best just to use a gauze, however as we're a school, we have a small budget, so im not so sure we can afford to hire one. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get this effect in a cheap way? CheersBradley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 hiring a gauze IS the cheep suggestion - go get some quotes; you'll be pleasantly surprised and you certainly won't be able to cobble together an alternative solution for any less time or money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackP Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I allways try and trade some of the cost for a spot in the program under special thanks or just a copy of the companies logo. It's at least worth a try, some companies are happy to reduce the cost for a school and some advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 It's always worth remembering that the companies supporting school programme ads usually do it for good cause reasons, and rarely from an expectation of generating business. When chasing such sponsorship, don't try to imply they'll get business, just go for the fact that their potential customers will see them supporting a school production - so it's a slightly different form of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 The usual way to use a gauze in this way would be to also have a full black behind th gauze as well. However that means you need two tracks or cloth barrels - one for the gauze and one for the blacks, so unless you have these tracks/barrels, THAT is where it could get more expensiv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
light-man Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I recently did the LX for a production in the Liverpool Empire, and we had exactly the same spec of making the band 'disappear'. We used Gauze, Blacks and Colorado Battens for this, and just flew the Gauze & Blacks in and out where necessary. I'm assuming you may not have a fly system due to it being a school, in which case, do you have do use a solid barrier between the band and the rest of the stage? Could you not use Profiles for lighting them, and just put them in a black-out when not required (and perhaps give some strong back light)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Backlight with a bit of haze can make all manor of things disappear... If you have lit music stands or other necessary light sources in their midst, you'll struggle to make them completely disappear though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ bradderz Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 these are all exactly my thoughts. we only have one track, and theres no way really for us to hang blacks at the back. we dont have a fly system. also I thought with lights on they're stands it would loose the effect. Im thinking the money could be better spent hiring other things, such as a hazer, which we could use for this effect, aswell as for other parts of the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_s Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'm with Shez - depending on your stage depth, where the band are and how you light everything else. The key is (relatively) lots of backlight focused downstage of the band, and as little frontlight as you can get away with. Practically speaking, you'll probably want to use a lot of sidelight to illuminate the talent, with as little frontlight as you can get away with as fill/to make it look normal. You might not be able to make them entirely disappear, but the 'shadowy silhouette' look can be very effective in itself. - although not a great example; with her performing so far upstage and being followspotted it was impossible to make the band entirely disappear, especially with that bloody drum screen! But you can see the overall idea. You'll also want to get rid of any obvious sources of light from the band that the audience can see directly - blackwrap music stand lights and tape over any annoying LEDs or shiny things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I read that quickly as 'tape over annoying MDs' - but in all seriousness, if you make the band wear black, they'll vanish. Even the music stand lights won;' be a big deal as long as they're dim - ideal for those new LED/CFLs that are just feeble as room lights. So don't worry about the gauze, just keep stage lighting tight to the acting area and make them wear black - job done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
light-man Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Glad I wasn't the only one thinking along the strong back-light lines! http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif I tend to find a bank of open white PARs (usually CP61) is particularly effective at making things disappear, but be careful not to blind the audience - also, it's not necessarily going to work with whatever else is going on on-stage, but it's just an idea. I'd also blackwrap the music lights personally (effectively making a mini barn door, really), I find them far to distracting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart91 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 It's always worth remembering that the companies supporting school programme ads usually do it for good cause reasons, and rarely from an expectation of generating business. When chasing such sponsorship, don't try to imply they'll get business, just go for the fact that their potential customers will see them supporting a school production - so it's a slightly different form of support. Paul makes a good point. We get asked this question quite a lot, by schools and charity events. The problem is that the audience who will be reading the programme are unlikely to be looking to hire kit themselves. Assuming that there is a finite amount of space in the programme, it is probably more cost-effective for the school to source another local business who will benefit from an ad and are hence prepared to pay more for it, and then apply that money to the hire cost. Good prospects for ad sales are local supermarkets, housing associations, and housing developers - all have relatively deep pockets and a keen desire to improve their standing with the local population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 [rant]As an old codger who remembers working without moving lights, hazers, banks and banks of radio mics to avoid having swaps, full colour programmes and other mod cons (I'm 50, btw), it never ceases to amaze me that people will pay to hire Macs, hazers and 24 radios then say they can't afford the one thing that the show actually needs. When you're looking at a show and deciding what to buy and hire, start by asking the question "what does this show actually need?" then do a priority list. If it really does need the lights to move and/or change colour then movers will go high up the list. If you just need a selection of colour washes then maybe the in-house rig can oblige and your 8 Macs can go lower down the list. Having got your priority list done then you can look at the budget and say "we can afford the top x number off the list". Then just live with it and do the best you can with what you've got, like thousands of other people have done before you. I'm pretty sure I can light a show better with a house rig used correctly than some people who walk in with a rig full of hired movers and don't know about lighting design (only how to make them turn on, move and change colour). Often my fee to light the show well will be less than they are paying in hire fees for the week and then offering their services for nothing. Grrr.[/rant] Anyway, back to the question! :) I'm often surprised how little gauzes and cycs actually cost to buy. The school may want to get a price and see if it's worth investing in one to use again and again. That would mean you could have it made to exactly the right size. Obviously, if you're hiring one in it may be too big and not fit very well. Having said that, as they're cheap to buy that probably means they're cheap to hire too and delivery and collection between them may cost more than the hire itself so if someone could go collect it you may find the cost comes down tremendously. As I said above, though, you need to decide how important to the show everything you're planning to spend money on actually is. As a Production Manager I often have different people feeling their requirements are most important and I have to choose between them - the only way to do that properly is by looking at what will be best for the show. Hope that hepls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ bradderz Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 so as the school definitely wanted a gauze, I found one to hire, and worked out how we would rig it, only for them to decide its not worth it.... (bangs head) they decided it would be better to do what we've all said.... haha oh well thats schools for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Well, you did the right thing! You did your priority list and they did theirs. As they are the ones running the budgets then they make the final decision, but at least you were able to give them enough information to be able to make that decision properly. Without you working out the possibilities, pricing them up and giving them a choice, they wouldn't have been able to do anything. I'm pretty sure they will remember that you did the job properly even if you didn't get the outcome you were hoping for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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