Digger65 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Hi allI am working for a recieving house theatre but we are soon to embark upon an in house production for which I have been asked to provide a lighting design.I have been informed that I shall not be receiving a fee by the venue management and wondered if anyone had any thoughts to whether this is proper practise or if I am within my rights to ask for a design fee?Many thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I am working for a recieving house theatreIf they are employing you, can they not ask you to do anything they reasonably expect? What you do during the hours that they pay you isn't particularly relevant. And to top it off, unless your contract states otherwise, they'll own the design! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 In my experience with small scale touring theatres, on the odd occasion when I was working as CSM and also designing the lights for the show, I recieved a fee for the design as well as my weekly wage, as the work was considered to be outside my job description. In effect, I didn't really make any more money, as I didn't put in any overtime claims during the production week, as the extra time I worked was on the design, for which I was receiving a fee. I was also employed at a mid-scale touring house a good few years ago now where I designed lighting for the in-house Christmas show: again a small fee was paid for work not included in my usual job description. However, as Shez says, it will depend on the terms of your contract of employment: it may be that such work is included in your job description. I'd read your contract before arguing the toss with the boss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 You are scuppered, unless design fees are a part of your contract, and I guess they're not. Few contracts of employment ever get specific on job detail - 'lighting' might be itemised as different to 'sound' but generally people have a technical slant to their work, and that's it. I suspect that your boss would expect all things lighting to be part of your job. The fact you've never designed a show is probably actually wrong - I suspect most lighting people have done far more than work to somebodies plan. I certainly 'design' all the time. As in, the client/visiting company/group saying this is what I want to do, and going away, leaving you to design how to do it, where to put the kit, how to focus and adjust it, even picking suitable colours. That's design too, isn't it? I'd guess the best this one gets is for you to get a credit, not money. However - if it takes extra hours, then depending on the contract you have, this could be dosh or the dreaded TOIL. If they do a very late night plotting session, maybe you'll twist an extra payment - but even that could be impossible. The only thing to do is check the wording of your contract, and/or ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 You should also be clear on your ownership of the design. As a lighting design is deemed a creative act you can hold the copyright on that design - if the show subsequently transfers/tours then you should be seeing something from that also.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth A Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 When I use to work for Clear Channel, we use to do many lighting designs. Mostly for our big summer musicals for the kids and stuff, however they were big with big budgets. But again, we never got paid any design fees or anything. The lighting design was done within working hours and then any hours worked during the production week were part of normal hours, and overtime paid as normal. I admit I couldn't say I needed to stay till 3am for a plotting session, but within reason they paid every hour I worked during design, technicals and shows etc. Being the Chief Electrician of that venue, it wa deemed an essential part of the job to facilitate this. However all credit in programmes and press releases as required always gave the credit as required. Also, we have the same issue as Paul. You are always technically being asked to design. Best one is the ballets. We need this this this and this. . . . please make it look nice.! And off you go with your little plan and swatch book and back comes a beautiful show for them. Technically its a design, but you could never charge them. I have to say I use to enjoy this. In some ways I miss it. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyro_gearloose Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 As a lighting design is deemed a creative act you can hold the copyright on that designReally? A few years ago I used to dabble a little in 3d graphics and a question was asked in one of the 3d CGI industry magazines about the ownership of copyright. Someone was asking about the ownership of copyright of images which were created for a client. The answer basically boiled down to this : Since the images were created at the behest of the client, then the client owned the copyright. Is this not the same as being asked to create a lighting design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 It's a very standard feature of contracts of employment for the employer to claim the copyright of anything created in the course of employment - including lighting designs. Many times clever inventions have been claimed by the employer over the years. When I was a teacher, one student's parents attempted to claim the rights to their daughter's musical composition used in an examination - it got quite unpleasant, and the legal beagles determined that the college corporation actually owned it, but were perfectly willing for her to market it if she wished, but she could not prevent the college from using it in their marketing if they wished! It got very messy because the examination board also reserve the right to use any material submitted without payment. This at least has been fixed - exam entries now have a permission form. However - in this case the case collapsed as the copyright ownership was established - Lionel Richie owned it! She'd (accidentally) borrowed one of his early less well known songs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Since the images were created at the behest of the client, then the client owned the copyright. Is this not the same as being asked to create a lighting design?It all depends on the wording of the contract. You could design your imagery and allow the client to use it under exclusive licence, meaning that you would still own and control the design. Most clients would probably prefer to buy it outright though to ensure you couldn't sell it to their competitors. YMMV. IANAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger65 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Thanks allI am always ompressed by forums such as this where people are more than happy to offer advice!I guessed I wouldn't be getting a design fee but I thought a good idea to check it out regardlessCheersJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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