cpizey Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Earlier this week we had the good fortune to play a venue with a really good house PA and engineer - a rare pleasure.The technique he used to get a great kick sound for us was, 2 mics/channels, one for 'crack', one for 'thump'. He used one gate for both channels and loads of compression.My questions are: which channel should be used to trigger the gate (crack or thump)? And what sort of compression settings for each channel? Wish I'd asked him at the time.All advice welcome. Many thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 There is no magic formula.You take the acoustic sound of the drum (hopefully reasonable to start with), think about the genre of the band and what the kit needs to sound like both in isolation and within the context of the full band mix and then use your engineering skill to make it so. I rarely gate drums, preferring to adjust mic position and EQ, and maybe even crack out the tuning key if necessary. That's just my style though. I've heard gated drums I love and I've heard gated drums sound awful. What style of music are you playing, we may be able to give some blind suggestions of where to aim for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpizey Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 We play classic rock, reminiscent of Led Zep, Thin Lizzy, Deep Purple, AC/DC - or we like to think so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 So after a short, hard hitting, not mega sub-bassy but more thump in the chest sort of kick sound? I'd start by making sure the drum was relatively close to this in the first place. Then a low cut at around 60Hz to cut off any rumbly nonsense, a boost at 4k ish (tuned by ear to respond to the drum) for a bit of clickyness and maybe a cut around 800Hz to leave space for snare/toms/guitars/vocal etc.Maybe a compressor to even out the volume, but only if it needs it. A gate probably isn't needed unless you're in a very small venue and experiencing feedback issues. If you're after tips on how to get this sound acoustically, my own kit is setup with an emads kick head, bubble wrap damping inside and a big hole in the resonant head. It's also only a short drum, rather than the modern longer drums which are more sub-bassy. This gives me a very ledzep tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpizey Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 So after a short, hard hitting, not mega sub-bassy but more thump in the chest sort of kick sound? I'd start by making sure the drum was relatively close to this in the first place. Then a low cut at around 60Hz to cut off any rumbly nonsense, a boost at 4k ish (tuned by ear to respond to the drum) for a bit of clickyness and maybe a cut around 800Hz to leave space for snare/toms/guitars/vocal etc.Maybe a compressor to even out the volume, but only if it needs it. A gate probably isn't needed unless you're in a very small venue and experiencing feedback issues. If you're after tips on how to get this sound acoustically, my own kit is setup with an emads kick head, bubble wrap damping inside and a big hole in the resonant head. It's also only a short drum, rather than the modern longer drums which are more sub-bassy. This gives me a very ledzep tone. Yep, that's the kind of sound we're after - right on topic, thanks! I'll pass this advice on to our drummer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 "This gives me a very ledzep tone." And really, what could be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave SA Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Boosting 4k will give you a more 'old school' rock kick drum. 8k works for me for something more modern. But to be honest microphone choice is far more important. What kit do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichM Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 My standard rock setup: Beta91 in, D6 out. Both gated depending on how "boomy" I want it. I almost never have to touch the EQ. Never use compression unless the drummer is useless. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisky-zulu Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I've found that making sure the kit is tuned helps, then I tend to use a Shure Beta 91 inside and a Shure Beta 52A in the skin hole, then I gate as necessary. I very rarely touch the EQ (unless the kit hasn't been tuned or is particularly rubbish in general) apart from the low pass filter, which I dial in about 5K. I don't use compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart91 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I remember a discussion on ProSoundWeb a while ago about this very subject. The consensus was that the single biggest thing that would improve the kick sound was "more rig". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpizey Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Boosting 4k will give you a more 'old school' rock kick drum. 8k works for me for something more modern. But to be honest microphone choice is far more important. What kit do you have? Its a Yamaha Beech Custom drum kit, and our drummer does pay plenty of attention to its tuning. He says he's still learning how to tune it properly, but actually he does a really good job.The front skin has a 'Drum Port' and I just use a Shure PG52 in front of this. We have a pretty limited choice of mics but would be willing to invest in something up to about £100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_hate_fisicks Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 There's your answer. Put that mic on ebay and get a D6 or other decent kick drum mic, and that will be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueShift Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I think all the basics have been covered here. First off, the kick (and rest of the kit!) need to sound good. Well tuned, right amount of damping, etc... Secondly, you need to know what you are going for. The kick is one of the few instruments where we are 'creating' a sound that is somewhat unlike the real instrument. Modern rock/pop music has adopted a 'sub+click' kind of kick sound which is not really what a kick drum sounds like up close. The acoustic output of a kick drum is mostly midrange, ironically what we often cut on the kick channel EQ... Mics wise, the common approach is a large diaphragm dynamic mic capturing the sound of the drum as a whole, and a condenser (often a boundary mic) capturing the attack of the beater. This is widely used, but you need to be careful about how the output of these 2 mics (generally, not in any way phase aligned) sum together. Sometimes, the result is great. Sometimes a polarity reversal or some delay on the condenser may be required to avoid cancellations that are counter productive. Personally, I think its good practice to get as much of your kick sound as possible from the 1 mic, and use the second to accentuate missing features that your looking for. Although I always spec 2 mics, If the system and kit is right, I'll often ignore the condenser. Personally, I'm a big fan of gates & comps, but not in the agressive sense. First off, If I'm gating, the range is only 10dB or so. This is simply to attenuate the spill from other kit elements into the kick mic. Not to remove unwanted tuning artefacts. Secondly, the compressor is not just for fixing drummers who dont strike consistently, but its a tool for shaping the transient response of the kick. With a ratio of around 3:1, aiming for GR of about 3-5dB, you can shape the response of the kick by using the attack and release controls. Fast attack, fast release tames the click of the drum and accentuates the resonance. Slow attack accentuates the click, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesperrett Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 If you want a 70's sound then remove the front skin completely. An AKG D12 mic would also help - I find it gives 'that' sound with very little eq needed. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Still like the D12, haven't seen anyone else use one in years! And of course, for the ultimate kick, live kick replacement can't be beaten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.