paulears Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 I've got the video somewhere of Anglia TV's Helen McDermott doing it (think was 1996-ish?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattladkinlx Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 The current tour is quite, well actually VERY good! Went to see it at Colchester last week as know the some of the cast and crew and really enjoyed it (in fact I went back and saw it again a couple of days later with the same people!) Some of the lighting cues were badly plotted and I feel more could have been done with the lighting, but the set is very well constructed and love the "monster" and the ship movement effects! Some of the radio mics were playing up (or poor quality) as were getting a very tinny sound from them and there was a earthing problem but apart from those small things well worth the money! Be warned - dont reveal anything to the cast pre-show as it will come back to haunt you during the show! Dale Superville as Ariel was just excellent (a mixture of super camp and Gollom (sorry for spelling) from Lord of the Rings!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 I'm looking forward to seeing it again. Taking my daughter this time, and as I didn't have one last time, it was a LONG time ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattladkinlx Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Post removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 so you went to see a professional show, and asked the lighting crew to change one of their cues? Forgive me, but I'm very surprised they didn't answer with two words - the second one being 'OFF'. I'd expect the Simon Hutchings the lighting designer would have taken that into account - but there are practical limitations to scrollers - noise being one of them. Maybe the cues were called a little late, or the house lx was a little slow, but when you have to change colour from end to end it is never going to be quiet. I'd bet that many of the scroller cue are done at non-audible moments, but some just can't be. How do you design your scroller cues as to be silent? With a multi-function rig, many don't actually go out for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 after pleading with the lighting crew to change it, they didReally? Hmm, next time I go to the theatre as a punter, and I see a lighting cue I don't like, I must remember to ask the electricians on the show to change it for me. ROTFLMAO!!! If a punter from the audience on a show that I was touring with asked me to change the way the show was plotted, they'd be told exactly where to get off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattladkinlx Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Post removed - apologies for my comments (both on this thread and on others). I have spoken to Paul about them and will stop them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Matt - bearing in mind that I have been doing this for nearly twice as long as you have been alive - I can assure you that I am quite aware of the method of specifying scroller strings! To be honest, I can't quite believe you have the front to tell us how it's done! My question was pretty obviously rhetorical - I know perfectly well how to do it - that you didn't pick up on it amazes me. What you seem to forget is that giving advice should be based upon having actually done things - not just once, but enough times to see things go wrong, and never to repeat them, or enough times to see what really works. It is incredibly common to carefully choose your colours so that zapping from end to end isn't required, and then discover during plotting that to do what the director wants involves wrecking your plans. Some designers have enough redundancy built in to be able to flip-flop from one set of scrollers to another, so the dark ones can be slowly reseting in virtual silence ready for their next cue. However, some directors simply want to be able to snap from state to state in an unplanned way. Planet, unless it has changed radically from my experience of it, is one of those shows. Director sees a state in one scene during rehearsal and remembers it. Then he says "wouldn't it be great if we go from this - straight into that great look we has back in scene two? BUT - not that nice yellow we were using - straight into that really vivid blue, just after he says 'Is’t possible on so little acquaintance that I should like Miranda?' - then hit it" Matt - you need to also bear in mind that lighting is not one of the things most people even notice. As long as it doesn't go dark in the middle of the dialogue - most people have no idea. The noise of a massive scroller reset probably gets blamed on the band. One thing that you may find useful is that it doesn't matter if you know the crew or not - external comment before, during or after show time has little effect. For these reasons:1. The crew, including the board op have no authority to change the cue anyway.2. They will probably be aware of it themselves and having a teenager give advice, no matter how well meant, is likely just to make them fume (they may well smile and agree - until your back is turned - then put you in their NEVER EMPLOY file)3. What has it got to do with you? - you paid to see the show, if you didn't like it, that's fine, but doesn't qualify you in any form to give advice. 4. Don't assume that you are the only person who noticed. The director (who has seen the show far more times than you), the LD, the CSM, the DSM, the company manager will all be aware already if it really is a problem - and may have decided that visually it works, so they live with it.5. After the show, they will no doubt be all talking about the kid who tried to tell them their job and give advice. I've been working in the industry since 1978 - and I have never, ever done what you did. Especially when I know the ops as you are effectively commenting on their professionalism - and that is something you never, ever do. Usually because it is just not the way we do things, but often because you are not in possession of all the facts. It may be worth remembering that you may well know them - but what do they think of you? In my experience, jobs often come from people who worked with you once, remembered you, and thought of you when they need help. I wonder if after commenting on their show they think - Gosh, what helpful advice he gave about how we could change the show - or did they simply say - know it all, arrogant ar*ehole? You pick. I'll start a thread up with a vote if you like? Along the lines of how would you like to have your lighting commented on by somebody with little experience? I'm sorry this turned into a kind of anti rant, Matt - but as you decided you'd teach me how to design a scroll, my temper really boiled over. We don't do this kind of explosion very often, and I'm a bit ashamed that as a mod it had to be me - but I have tried to help you privately in the past, attempting to stop you making a fool of yourself - but you just pushed too far this time. MODS I can't judge how far I have gone here - please remove this post if any of you think I overstepped the mark. To everyone else, I appologise in advance, but after Matts dig - I felt it had to be said.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Used to really annoy me that in Starlight there was an occasion when the scrollers made a awful racket. The scrollers were on rows of cans, they dimmed to black and then went rattle. I saw the show a few times, and my memory of it was that it was a "schoolboy error" for some (presumably) fairly competent people to make. Although I cant remember the exact detail, it being several years ago, I'm fairly sure the cans the scrollers were on were not needed immediately afterwards, had they gone black, rattle, up then I'd have understood why scroller rattle was required and this annoyance wouldn't have remained lodged in my brain. Never had the balls to go up to the Lx op behind the glass and him though. Presumably the op behind his window never got to hear it, and presumably the "LD, the CSM, the DSM, the company manager were all be aware already if it really is a problem - and had have decided that visually it works, so they live with it". For year after year. How long did Starlight run? Seemed forever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 One thing to remember is that it's extremely rare that the board op has the authority to change anything, and if you point this sort of thing out to an LD who you don't know very well you'll probably have trouble finding work later on. The only way to do this is to suggest it in such a way that the LD and director thinks it was their idea - as an op you are a facilitator, NOT the designer. While on my last cruise liner I had much more change authority for the production shows than any West End or touring op is likely to have. I was permitted to add the starcloth back into one scene, because it hadn't been working when the LD had lit the show, and I was allowed to alter the timings of some of the hits because the choreography had been changed. That was it.Regardless of what I might have thought about scroller, gobo or any other transitions, it simply was not my call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oovis Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 I was in the great position, a couple of years ago, of being left with our resident show when it changed from the normal version to the Christmas version, then back again a couple of months later. The LD was out of the country so I was left to program the major changes, which he then looked over when he had an opportunity. That's the only time in 18 years I've been given the chance to program stuff of my own. It's nice to be given the freedom, but it's someone else's name in the programme after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Last year, during Panto, I was Company Manager. The theatre LX op refused to change a cue, because that was how the LD wanted it. In the end, he did change it - but he wasn't happy because of exactly the reasons people are stating - it wasn't his job to alter the cues, and he was worried that if the LD came back to check - he would be in the cart. I agreed to take the blame, and he was happy. That is why in general, requests should be resisted - he was quite right to attempt to stop me changing it - but as for somebody in the audience suggesting a change - whoever said lighting was democratic? Sound never have this problem - requests from the audience for more volume, less volume etc all get studiously ignored! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Sound never have this problem - requests from the audience for more volume, less volume etc all get studiously ignored! I rarely ignore a polite request from an audience member. When requested to change something I generally adjust either an EQ setting on a disused channel or the headphone volume pot, then ask "is that better?". It pretty much always is...and the punter goes away with positive feelings about his visit to the theatre! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 .... I generally adjust either an EQ setting on a disused channel or the headphone volume pot, then ask "is that better?". ... Ah...the old "DFA" knob. We need to enter that acronym in the wiki. Or perhaps not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPAman Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Ah...the old "DFA" knob. Oh yes; it works on punters as well as bands. The most useful knob (or set of knobs) on any desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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