medina Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Hi,I know we've covered filming of shows many times but I think my question is coming from another angle. This is mainly aimed at venue techs. If an artist/band want to film a DVD for resale and/or broadcast do you place any additional charges/fees or have any special restrictions or rules? I am rules wise, camera positions, health and safety stuff etc. Any view points welcome,Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossmck Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Most venues charge more for permission to record for commercial reasons - and certainly there are rules regarding camera positions (don't block aisles, exits, sightlines etc) What is your venue and what sort of performances ? Many I know are quite a bit more flexible with the am-drams etc - it's a bit different filming a commercial professional production with a full multi-camera setup and selling a load of DVDs (and making a healthy profit!) compared to a kids' dance group that wants one camera at the back to sell a DVD for a few quid to the cast / parents / family etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 You'd be surprised at some of the outfits that are doing the am drams and dance schools. I can't see them making a huge profit out of them, but there are a couple who use 2 or 3 decent cameras - and one I know who enlists the local moviemakers club and on a couple of dance/variety shows used SIX...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick512 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Hi,I know we've covered filming of shows many times but I think my question is coming from another angle. This is mainly aimed at venue techs. If an artist/band want to film a DVD for resale and/or broadcast do you place any additional charges/fees or have any special restrictions or rules? I am rules wise, camera positions, health and safety stuff etc. Any view points welcome,Thanks Venue's can change a location fee - if they feel their venues name is worth the artists while such as Madison Sq Gardens, Hollywood Bowl, Royal Albert Hall ect.. these can be quite substantial depending on the venue, Venue techs would not see any of this and it goes to the building owners directly. I have done filming at hundreds of venues and each one is different in how they approach it but have never been charged any additional for the venue techs unless they were specifically asked to do more work which put them over there usual hours or responsibilities. Even the band or artists own techs or staff would not usually receive any additional money for filming/broadcast rights with the exception of any designers and musical directors which had specific royalty or buy out closes in their contracts. As for rules, it depends on the size and power of the artist and director of the filming.. I have seen camera's placed everywhere in venues/streets and festivals blocking exits, sight lines and aliases all over the place, but if you do it the right way and have the officials required sign off what you are doing you normally always get what you want. It may cost money but again rarely would this go to any venue staff. So the simple answer is depends on the artist and how much you want them at your venue to what you can charge. I did a Beyonce DVD in NY at a venue that is notorious for piling on extra charges and union overtime - We filmed over 4 shows in 2 weeks - working long days - Without paying a penny of extra changes for filming..or rehearsals. Plus sightline's for most of the audience were bad as we had 50 camera's on tracks, cranes and Dollys all over the place but because it was advertised as being part of a DVD we could get away with it all... It actually worked out very very well.... See the Trailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanhill Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 At a previous venue we used to recharge a visiting company double time for the technical staff working on a show that they wished to record onto video, for the duration of the show. Some of this recharge was passed on to the relevant technicians, but the remainder was retained by the venue. Some years later, at another venue run by the same operators, the decision was made, albeit not by me, not to pass on any 'location' fees that were charged to a company that wished to film a performance. You need to make provision for informing the audience the the performance will be filmed, and that by purchasing tickets they approve for their likeness to be used on film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medina Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Thanks for the information so far, very useful. We are not looking to line the pockets of the technicians,but if the venue can make a bit more money all well and good. the main reason for asking is that we want to have continuity for all bands wanting to film and that the audience experience isnt ruined. To add another question, what provision would be given to the filming from a technical point of view, my thought is that lighting and show remains the same, after all it the audience who have paid to watch a performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanhill Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 If it is being done properly, the shoot will be lit for camera, not for the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Some Bloke Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 No, I'm with medina here. If the audience is paying to see a theatre show then it is lit for a theatre show; if they're coming to see a DVD being made then it's lit for the DVD. If the latter then it must clearly say so in big letters on all advance publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 For commercial release, it's common to not charge for the tickets, as the inconvenience to the audience has been 'compensated'. This means they can do re-shoots and error concealment without worrying - and the lighting issues are resolved. Tickets for these shows are also printed to make sure that no financial compensation is offered to members of the audience for exploitation of their image - and it also covers any potential legal problems should a member of the audience be with somebody they shouldn't be, perhaps? Technician wise - BECTU have rates for TV work as compared to theatre - so some additional payments could be due if the venue have made a commitment to honour union agreements. For non-union shows, then the video involvement will probably simply be extra hours for the in/out - and usual pay rates for the show, because they're doing the same job. New or different jobs might mean different pay rates at union venues, but like most things nowadays - individual negotiation is the key in the absence of proper agreements. Things to watch are issues like lighting designs or set design - where if somebody has been paid for a 'theatre' version, the additional exploitation of video sales needs to be addressed. If they sell 100,000 DVDs then your LX design must have been worth something - if they sell 50, is it worth the bother? The main objections I seem to get are simply extra hours, and who pays for them - plus practical issues such as sight lines being spoiled, meaning box office get refund requests - plain simple common sense stuff. Sticking a jimmy jim in a box sounds a great idea - but if people are paying for tickets, they will complain - loudly! If their seat was free, then tough! When I get asked to shoot theatre music events, then it's important to not get in the way, keep the venue happy and cause as little inconvenience to the house crew as possible - which means talking to them in advance, explaining what you would like, and emphasising you won't be a problem. This usually works fine. I do quite a few 'try-outs', where in prep for a full outside broadcast shoot, we do the show with three cameras for the producers to judge if the huge outlay on a full OB is worth it - so we might shoot in two venues, then edit maybe two or three numbers and present those. Some show promise, and then a free ticket show and OB trucks get booked, while some just don't make it - maybe content, or songs, or sometimes it's just a bit dull on video, and the budget for improvement isn't available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldradiohand Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 There's also a potential additional cost in providing decent sound for a DVD for theatrical productions. I know damn well that the FOH sound I generate is far from a complete mix (small theatre, amdram budgets, accompanying bands often play "acoustic", only principles are miced etc) so I'm loath to offer the PA mix for recording and the mic on the camera approach usually produces unacceptable results. Doing it properly costs the production company and the theatre - extra mics, mic splits, re-rigging time and so on. The DVDs that do get produced here for the amdram stuff often look good but don't exactly show the sound dept in a good light! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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