TomLyall Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 I'm looking to make a 'multicore' of sorts, with DMX and power combined. I see Terralec do such a cable, but it appears to be standard mic cable, and I'd quite like to avoid that, because I'm planning to make this a considerable length, around 50m (which I'm aware in its own isn't a great deal, but I really don't want that much of a run in mic cable). CPC do a similar product, only these are premade, and the maximum length is 20m, so thats out. After having a look on the Klotz website I'm quite interested in their combined DMX and Power cables. Sommer also do a similar range of cables. Does anyone know of any dealers in the UK (or anyone who will ship to the UK at reasonable rates) who sell either the Klotz or Sommer cable, or something similar? I have already found F&S Cables, and e-mailed them. If anyones got any opinions or tips on making a multicore like this, I'd appreciate hearing your comments. Oh, and I'm planning to put the whole thing on a marcaddy steel cable drum of an appropriate size (depends on the length I finally decide on, and the O/D of the cable). :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrianfreston Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Pretty sure this is not allowed as you are putting LV (Low Voltage) in with MV (medium voltages). The potential to create a fault is high. Hence most controls are made into snakes or looms rather than in one multi. Noise boys can get away with all their control in one multi, but look closely they always keep the mains feed out of the multi, or should. I personally would never combine data and mains in the same, you just need one earth fault to blow out all the DMX devices in the system or worse still the desk as most desk are not optically isolated, which is why I usually put a Opto Isolated splitter at the desk end in places I don't like the look of the power. Just my thoughts Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomLyall Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 While I appreciate that mixing ELV and LV in the same cable may appear to not be a good idea, they definitely manufacture the cable. http://www.klotz-ais.com/lshop,showdetail,...DMX,HD01,,,.htm Just to add to that, both the power and DMX cable are indervidually jacketed then overjacketed as one cable, which in many ways would be safer than just, say, using tape to hold two separate cables together, at least this way its got another jacket to protect them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrianfreston Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 I could careless about the number of Jackets. I would not do this for more reasons than just having one handy cable. My looms are typically mains, 4 or 5 DMX lines or ethernet, coms and a few reserves. Typically I am finding it easier to run a net line back to the rack end and do the DMX at that end. This cable is not CAT 5 and is not suitable. If I am using more than 1 DMX line I will use a small multi for the DMX and comms. I will always run mains seperately. I have always done this of the safety of my system. If my loom gets cut or damaged there is very little chance of get mains on to my Data side. It also make it cheaper to replace and you can quicky add more cable to the loom when needed. You go ahead and do what you want, but I would not hire that cable because of my beliefs in keeping Data and mains sperate. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhuson Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Adam Hall sell the Klotz cable mentioned above see this link. I have a sample of it as we are making up some new multicores, but I wouldn't use it myself, it's really not that flexible and I think were going to stick with the seperate cables loomed together option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth A Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Just to point out that you can run LV and ELV or data cable down the same multicore or indeed in the same trunking, conduit or other installation on the provsion that the ELV circuitry is protected to the same that of the LV cable. This I believe though can not be used for Fire alarms or Telephones though I appreciate that isnt part of the current topic in hand. So yes it is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 To combine mains in a multi is a personal choice, the BBC have had a standard for it for years - they use it for powering monitors, it has a 2.5amp 3 core mains, a video coax and a starquad for comms or a mic. If there was any level of safety risk, I hardly think it would have survived as a 'standard'. As far as I can see, having individual jacketed cables inside another only adds to safety, as had been said. If someone made mic multiway with an integral main core, it would make my life much easier. Having to constantly re-tape the damn things when one or the other creep is a really dull job, and the visual impact of taped up multis doesn't look that good. A John says, flexibility is probably the main reason for not using these, rather than any safety issue.p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomLyall Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 Paulears, you have just summed up why I really really like combined cables, and although you are right in saying they're not as flexible, they are, in my opinion at least, a lot better than taped looms. Lets be honest, PVC tape is, at the best of times, horrible stuff, leave it on for any length of time, or permanently in the case of a multi, and it gets disgusting, the cables don't go round corners well, are a pain to gaffa down. The main reason for using this in my situation is speed, its primarily going to be used for one night gigs, with minimal in and out time. I personally prefer drums to figure-of-8'ing, as on all but the biggest audio multi's I find it more hassle, it takes at least two people to pull out, whereas a decent drum will allow one person to pull it out, and two at most to recoil. Thanks for all your comments so far. I never go a day in this place without learning something new. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrianfreston Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Hey I never said that there was a Standard against any of it. I would love to see a venue I work in try and gaffa down one of my looms. And I would even more like to see a Drum that can take a 100m snake. As for the PVC, try spending more than 10p a roll and you might find that its more longer lasting and does not turn to goo on the cable. The snakes don't lay flat if you put them on a drum as the pure nature of the roling onto the drum twists it. Thats why you figure 8 in a case and why you roll a single cable when coiling it. If the cable is put in the case right, only one person is needed to get it out. Bye Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SceneMaster Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Don’t you get interference running mains (especially dimmed mains cables?) with signal lines and especially sound signal cables? I even with a fully screened and individually screen sound multi cable… cringe when run with dimmer outputs or even just straight mains so sticking a signal with a mains would seem even worse even if fully insulated… sending DMX down one of these lines probably wouldn’t be that bad as it is digital so some interference wouldn’t be too much of an issue but analogue sound signal :) … I wouldn’t even if it was really well screened and by the time it is that the cable would be more like a 63amp feed going into one of my* betapacks!!! (*well technically not mine but hey) Although I do like the sound (not funny) of running one cable to a powered monitor… with the power and the signal in one cable… but then again if I had my way I wouldn’t be using powered monitors… I can see the BBC running it for a monitor (as in TV) but these probably aren’t as susceptible to interference and if they are not main show critical monitors then suppose it doesn’t matter… anyway don’t the cameras get their power and send their signal all in one cable? :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben.suffolk Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 The idea behind RS485 signals is that they are a differential pair, and so any interference should be loaded into both the +ve and the -ve, thus keeping the differential exactly the same , even though the actual waveform in the individual lines might not match what as put in, the difference between them should. Thats one of the reasons you should use the correctly specified cable for DMX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I thought Adam Hall had stopped selling Klotz a while back (we bought quite a bit of their end stock). Are they selling it again. We have bought klotz cable direct from germany in the past, and also from a company in the UK - I think it was either "The Specialist Cable Company" or "The Flexibel Cable Company". I cant remember, would have to ask somebody. <Klotz - very good cable (a little endorsement there)> T.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomLyall Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 I thought Adam Hall had stopped selling Klotz a while back (we bought quite a bit of their end stock). Are they selling it again. We have bought klotz cable direct from germany in the past, and also from a company in the UK - I think it was either "The Specialist Cable Company" or "The Flexibel Cable Company". I cant remember, would have to ask somebody. <Klotz - very good cable (a little endorsement there)> T.D.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think the people you're thinking of is the Flexible & Specialist Cables, who can be found: Here and as mentioned in my first post... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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