splodge360 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The Local Charity is Looking to hire in a large outdoor stage/ (posible cover if rain is forcast) for the Rock choir event in footballfield in Southampton in July this year. Got the LineArray Pa, Towers, and Lights sorted, but cant find anything big enough to fit 180+ swaying choristers. Im guessing on 6 people could share per 8x4 allideck, so will need about 35- 40 sheets (plus lots of crossbracing underneath) but was just wondering if anyone had any rules of thumb on space needed per person. only 4 would need 45 stage decks, and most would be infront exposed!. 6x 80kg average is 500 kg if they've just had dinner before getting up, 4ft is probably a sensible height. 3ft at front for wheelchairs, 5ft at the back to see down to conductor Its a raising money for charity event, so the cheaper the better!Thanks Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Rog, I don't want to seem sniffy but from what you post I don't think you can build this and you need to get a professional staging company in. Besides the structural calculations, the law round temporary structures at sports grounds is a bit complicated and thinking that because you can get 4 or 5 people on a stage deck and therefore can get 180 plus, some in wheelchairs, on 35-40 is a non-starter in itself. It is going to cost. There is no way round it and you should be asking the local authority what they require from you in the way of Safety Certificate or whatever before you even contact the staging companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The desk is strong, but the football ground will require special treatment to prevent damage. 4 legs, lots of weight means it's the legs that are the snag. Point load means spreader plates and lots of faffing around trying to level everything. A normal 300mm spreader plate will sink on a soggy field - so you'll end up tieing the 4 corner legs together, running scaff bracing on the ground, and to be honest, I'd pass the job to a scaff company to build the substage supports. Why not ask Maltbury for their advice - they are usually very helpful - but solid floors are easy, soft ones very worrying. I did one years ago on tarmac, (a car park) in the summer. When it was being dismantled, there were clusters of circles all over where they'd assumed there was no need to use anything under the legs - the floor was solid, but it wasn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianl Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 having had the ocasional dealing with stages and rock choirs and councils...... the requirements will change depending on the person looking at its opinion I've been stood there listening to 2 structual engineers insist on different bracing for the same structure, so you end up doing both so both go away happy you could be looking at tie bars joining all legs at the bottom, diagonal braces both vertical and horizontal on each deck, second layer of ply over the whole stage, spreader plates welded to the legs, huge amounts of ballast to stop it blowing away, lots of steps and ramps for quick evacuation, over rated handrails, etc just to keep the man who can say no happy, all on top of what the manafacturer may recomend. also being picky your title asks about steeldeck, the topic talks about litedeck I would contact a (few) stageing companies and ask them to quote with a design, submit the design to the apropriate people, check they are happy, and make sure the structure gets built like the design. far better a bit extra work now than the choir performing on the grass in front of the stage because it gets closed at 10 minutes to doors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I really don't know how to put this without sounding rude but this is a job for the experts. Do not build outdoor stages with or without roofs unless they are simple, small and carry less than 20 people. Anything bigger is specialist work and if you have to ask you should never even attempt it. These things kill people even when experts erect them. This is currently a "live" topic and all local authorities were circulated in January with the latest SCOSS Alert.My link Do not skip read as it gets on to staging on pages 2 and 3 where it tells of the independent design and erection checks required for sub-structures and stage bases. The guidance for temporary demountable structures can be purchased for a value-for-money £40 at; My link And the ILMC is discussing precisely this topic at; My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I intended, about 8 years ago to take a couple of dozen bits of decking to the local market place to stage a small performance for the local council's arts department. However, they needed documentation from me proving these were safe, and although metro deck specs are available, these were for the individual units, and the council needed written proof the structure when assembled was safe. Many of the terms in Kerry's document were in there, and I could not provide what was needed so the event was cancelled. One of the lacking documents was documentary evidence of the surface construction which the Council didn't have - even though it was theirs. Documentation is needed to show things are safe, so if you can't provide them - that's it! It's also so much a problem that the very document giving guidance has to have a rider stating that Whilst SCOSS has taken every care in compiling this Alert, it does not constitute commercial or professional advice. Readers should seek appropriate professional advice before acting (or not acting) in reliance on any information contained in or accessed through this Alert. So far as permissible by law, SCOSS does not accept any liability to any person relating to the use of any such information. If an organisation intent on setting safety as it's prime concern legally can't promote it's advice, as advice - you can see how dangerous it is for an individual to get involved with this kind of thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Always found it strange that Maltbury has links to downloads which you can't download but have to send off to get. I was doing community events for 11 years with a local authority and I saw their EHO a grand total of four times, two of them social occasions. We trusted each other implicitly as he had theoretical knowledge and I had the expertise so he left me to deal with things that other LA's make a meal of. Only once was I asked for a written RA and that was a gig for the housing association sponsored by the council, the second housing association gig was 20 times bigger and they didn't bother with the paperwork, they knew I had it on the laptop. Again a matter of trust. I have great sympathy for LA officers regarding events since they mostly haven't a clue what is going on. Is it a concert or a building site and why have we got children dancing on scaffolding.....with a fire breather *&?%! Unless they can offload all responsibility onto someone they can demonstrate is competent it is their arsene wenger on the line. With other LA's the trick is to provide them with answers to questions they haven't thought of. Not being clever-clever but simply demonstrating that you know your job. How you gain trust. This is off-topic yet pertinent in that unless you have answers before the questions arise, just don't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianl Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 going back to the origonal question and asuming profesional stage builders, and you just wanted to know they were hiring you the right size stage...... or for someone else who finds this in the future and wants to know how many people fit on their stage 0.3msq per person is usual for a standing audience, but you probably need a bit more. also they will probably be in groups with gaps between, and artistically laid out. and probably come with a band of some sort and some solo singers and a conductor, I'm thinking 1.5 to 2 times the size you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lovick Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I would use the RAT stage 3 system - This is very strong, We have had 50 people jumping on it at our school before!! If you want some more details about it etc just send me a PM as I have a deal with a hire company in Henley to be able to get 20% off http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gifhttp://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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