CPC's new HDMI over single cable Cat5 2/4/8 port distribution kits

[Tow]

Hi,

 

I have been asked to help install a couple of LCD TVs in a church to relay the service and also for digital signage etc from a PC.

The longest run is about 35-40m and the original plan was to send VGA + Audio down cat5.

However, I was looking at CPCs site and they have a new HDMI distribution system for good price. It only uses one cat5 cable to send the signal rather than the normal 2 for HDMI and the spec says " Supports uncompressed 2 channel LPCM audio ". I assume this allows it to drop the second cable and it does not support surround sound etc.

I am far from an expert in HDMI, so my question is does anyone have any experance with this kit and does the limitation with sound cause any problems/incompatibilities etc?

 

Thanks,

Mark.

 

 

[back_ache]

I suspect the underlying technology maybe HDbaseT, which is a technology we are above too install, I have opened a previous thread about it and plan to update that with my experiences of it.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDBaseT

[Tow]

Thanks Back Ache,

 

It looks like an attempt to standardise different makes of cat5 transmission kit.

 

 

 

[AHYoung]

Heres a clear case of someone making a large assumption and it now passing into documentary fact that the CPC kit supports an enhanced standard. In reality CPC sell the "cost effective" rather than cutting edge, the at no stage claim any more than hdmi 1.2 or stereo audio which marks it down as basic at best. These will do a job at a pricepoint, but you will soon hit the limits of the technology.

 

What was wrong with running over VGA? I would allways avoid running a hdmi signal path where an analogue one is available, XGA or WXGA will easily go 50m over decent cable which cost roughly £1/m , therefore on sub 50m runs, its allways going to be cheaper using a vga and audio Da and running cable as well as being better quality and more reliable with less points of failure.

 

 

[revbobuk]

We've done the video/audio distribution around our building, and it was hard enough with Cat5 - I'd have hated to do it with VGA cable. Particularly since VGA would usually be 'star' topology, from a DA, and that would mean multiple VGA cables - Cat5 is so much easier to run.

[back_ache]

Heres a clear case of someone making a large assumption and it now passing into documentary fact that the CPC kit supports an enhanced standard.

 

Ouch..

 

I am not making a documentary fact, I was making a suggestion.

 

And for the record, CPC do kit that uses HDbaseT though at a price point considerably less than we are paying for the kramer kit we are comfortable using.

 

 

I would agree than in the op's case, using analog makes sense, in our case though, the building is already flood wired with cat5, the customers changes his mind about positioning of equipment by the hour (though the initial positions are using kramer cat6) and the screens require ethernet and an ir back channel so it makes sense for us.

 

 

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/module.jsp?moduleId=cpc/643089.xml&sku=AV21385

 

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/module.jsp?moduleId=cpc/642968.xml&sku=AV21383

[jonathanhill]

I have used a VGA to Cat5 system, and noticed some severe picture aberrations when getting close to the recommended 30m limit.

 

Cable between patch ports was good quality Cat6.

[PoppaDom]

Cat6 is not necessarily suitable for devices designed to work over Cat5 or Cat5e when it comes to video baluns.

The extra twists and differing length between pairs can lead to ghosting and other imperfections in images.

 

Dom

 

I have used a VGA to Cat5 system, and notd some severe picture aberrations when getting close to the recommended 30m limit.

 

Cable between patch ports was good quality Cat6.

[AHYoung]

Sorry not attempting to offend, but feel its important that assumptions dont get offered as facts... Anyways looking again at what the Ops looking at, the only real advantage the CPC units offer is cost, its a church so they wont be using the existing cable, so that in mind its no harder to run 2 cat 5 lines, id also argue again for VGA which has got to be the best option for cost and reliability. That opens it up to all maner of solutions and to my mind if you want cat5 , the Kramer range ,which CPC sell, cost more, but arnt expensive and are more likely to work properly. If its CGA you are sending and you must use cat 5 have you considered using vga over cat 5 systems ? Vga is much easier to transmit then HDMI and it may be a better option...

[Tow]

AH is correct cost is one of the main factors, and ease of wiring.

It also needs to carry sound, so if we run VGA we will also have to run audio cables and I am not too sure 30m of unbalanced audio is a good idea.

The reason for HDMI vs VGA over cat5, well the kit is cheaper than buying a TX and separate RX modules from CPC and in the long run I can see VGA ports being dropped from domestic LCD TVs, especially as most decent laptops and even basic desktop graphic cards are now coming with HDMI as standard.

[AHYoung]

If its the cable cost and ease you want, run VGa plus audio over Cat5, its much easier to design a cat 5 vga transponder than a hdmi one and as a result they are generally cheaper or work better or both. Our kramer Vga units do 100+ m relatively seamlessly, even high end hdmi baluns wont touch that, HDMI is a domestic standard and will be replaced with displayport / thiuderbolt etc as its a better solution, my guess is you will actually see vga retained as the legacy standard and hdmi phased out. Its a question we get asked all the time, and ive never come across a laptop that has hdmi and not vga. Vga has been dropped from cheap domestic tvs, but not from commercial displays and will be retained for years as its still the legacy standard,

[soundspider]

How about the CPC VGA + audio over Cat5 systems?

 

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/module.jsp?moduleId=cpc/612278.xml

 

I've used all their different guises (1 to 1, 1 to 2, 1 to 4 and 1 to 8) and apart from one dodgy receiver box, no issues at all. Perfect pictures on all lengths of cable (longest I've run is 100m), pretty cheap, good solution.

 

Hope that's useful,

 

Alan

[Nic Forsdike]

As stated HDMI is a domestic standard, thunder bolt /display port are really not much better, I tend to use SDI / HDSDI as a transmission standard, the cheep way is to use coax cable, but for long runs I use fibre this just works !!

 

If its the cable cost and ease you want, run VGa plus audio over Cat5, its much easier to design a cat 5 vga transponder than a hdmi one and as a result they are generally cheaper or work better or both. Our kramer Vga units do 100+ m relatively seamlessly, even high end hdmi baluns wont touch that, HDMI is a domestic standard and will be replaced with displayport / thiuderbolt etc as its a better solution, my guess is you will actually see vga retained as the legacy standard and hdmi phased out. Its a question we get asked all the time, and ive never come across a laptop that has hdmi and not vga. Vga has been dropped from cheap domestic tvs, but not from commercial displays and will be retained for years as its still the legacy standard,

[Tow]

How about the CPC VGA + audio over Cat5 systems?

 

That was what I originally planed to use. It also has the advantage of a VGA and Audio loop out which could be feed to a local PC monitor etc.

 

I had a quick look at the spec of the current range of 32" LCDs and even branded models like Samsung have dropped VGA, it looks as if HDMI is the only cheap future proof option, apart from a RF modulator etc.

 

I don't think the cost of upgrading the cameras, video mixer and installed a HDSDI distribution system would go down well:-)

 

 

[sleepytom]

Samsung TVs stil have VGA - they call it "PC Input" on the specs.

 

The biggest issue with HDMI / Displayport is HDCP. This has the potential to break installations at some point in the future, which makes it a risky choice for any professional install.

 

Personally I really dislike seeing cheap TVs used in professional installs - they look cheap and nasty with their hi-gloss bezels and often have insufficient brightness to cope with installation in brightly lit environments. They lack features such as RS232 and built in timer control which makes it easy for them to be left on by mistake reducing their life and increasing power consumption.

 

Its far better to get a proper professional lcd / public display / digital signage monitor. These look smart and are lots brighter than domestic TVs (domestic Tvs tend to be between 150 and 300 nits - public displays range from 500 - 2000 nits. ) They can be set to idiot mode to prevent anyone changing the settings and have much longer serviceable lifespans as they are designed for continuous usage.