mgrey Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Can anyone summarise, or point me to a link/other post, what equipment (hardware/software) is used on TV shows like the X-Factor and other large scale productions for the video displays? I think these are actually pixellated screens showing a video/PC output aren't they? Also are these available and cost-effective for amateur users in small venues - I am thinking screens around 6m wide x 3m high to form a backdrop/cyc that can either be made a single colour or present stills/video viewed from a distance of around 10m (front-row) to 30m (back row). Assuming they are available for a reasonable price would they look good viewed from these distances? How else would you achieve a similar effect (there isn't sufficient space for rear projection to that size). Oh, and finally do you know of anywhere that hires these, ideally Yorkshire/north of England? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You could talk to AV Hire Shop in York, who do all that sort of thing, but make sure you are sitting down when they give you prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Have a chat with Pete Jones (Shooting Partners / Anna Valley) as they handle video for X Factor, Dancing on Ice etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timd Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You might find a projector onto cyc a more cost-effective option. LED screens aren't the cheapest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason5d Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 We would use Catalyst software on mac video servers for that. This sort of thing is very expensive, however as an alternative there issome great new software out, some of it free that allows you to map video. Check out video mapping on google & youtube would be a good place for you to start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 As a general rule of thumb, there is a screen of some sort such as Martin LC (which is the stuff that you can shine lights through too) or something along the line of Martin EC-10 (the more traditional, solid, video wall). This is then coupled with a media server, this is a playback control system that takes content and displays it on one or more outputs. They can also do things like edge blending and geometry correction. Arkaos Media Master and Resolume Arena are two examples of these. As a side note, when we do video in theatre. We use a 5000 lumen Sanyo Projector with a short throw lens, onto a curved cyc. We feed video to this using a Resolume Media Server running on our own hardware (i5-2500k Overclocked to 4.6GHz with 16GB Ram) This is way overkill for a single output in theatre but it does allow us to do the geometry correction so we can project an in-distorted image onto a curved surface. BTW, that hardware is available to hire if you can't find anything closer to home. Josh P.S. Please note, we're not a martin dealer. I just went to their site for examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadpixel Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Whats your budget and how long do you need it for.... where are the graphics coming from, are you making them or have you got them already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHYoung Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 unless your budgets huge, forget the video walls and just project it. A 15k projector on a 6m screen is fairly intense and if you overrig it with a short zoom lens, you can front project without real shadow problems. If its a tight budget loads of hire co.s have older units that still chuck it out and are generally available for a reasonable rate due to being last years model. The martin LC is more affordable than a higher rez wall solution, but its alighting effect more than anything and very pixelated, If thats what you want its decent, but dont expect HD. Personally id start from a content point of view, is it just for effects or are you using actual video. Its pretty easy to apply a filter to projection if you want a X factor pixel look, and this means that the looks defined by the content rather than the hardware. Its a steep learning curve and not cheap whatever you do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn.williams Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 <snip> viewed from a distance of around 10m (front-row) to 30m (back row). Video's not really my thing, but I was told a fairly interesting fact a little while ago; for an image on a video screen to be discernible (I.e not just a mess of pixels) by eye then for every 10m back from the screen you can increase the pitch (distance between LED pixels) by 1mm. So for a screen with a 3mm pitch, the audience would have to be at least 30m for theirs eyes to be able to see what the image was. If you're talking about having your closest audience members 10m from the screen from the screen then that's a 1mm pitch which is (relatively speaking) a pretty high definition in terms of LED screens. Of course, someone who knows more about this please do correct me if I've got my facts wrong, as a rule it's rough guide anyway, but quite handy to know IMO. Either way, LED screens are exceptionally expensive to hire, let alone all the equipment such as media servers to control and playback content as well as all the converters and other accessories you need. +1 for projection is you can make it work - I note you said back projection isn't an option though. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJones Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 for an image on a video screen to be discernible (I.e not just a mess of pixels) by eye then for every 10m back from the screen you can increase the pitch (distance between LED pixels) by 1mm. So for a screen with a 3mm pitch, the audience would have to be at least 30m for theirs eyes to be able to see what the image was. If you're talking about having your closest audience members 10m from the screen from the screen then that's a 1mm pitch which is (relatively speaking) a pretty high definition in terms of LED screens. I think your numbers are out :ph34r: I was looking at 10mm pitch from about 10m away and it was seamless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHYoung Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 lets assume that athe OP isnt going to be using 1mm pitch LED any more than they are likely to be lighting the stage by burning hundred pound notes... utter nonsense. for comparison a 6' wide HD projection has roughly speaking a 1mm pitch, as does a older 50' plasma, in either youd be hard pressed to see the pixels without your nose pressed hard against it, so lets assume that you can get away with a lower pixel density at 10 - 30m. In fact your average big cinema these days has a 16m screen and a 2 k projector, thats a pixel size of approx 8mm. ever seen a pixel in the cinema? no thought not. If you want to reduce the point source effect of an led screen you can hang a rear projection screen directly infront and it softens and evens the image without losing detail, however the current voque is to play up on the bright points of light you get with fairly lo rez led particularly in television so increasing the pixel count by using a more expensive LED solution might actually lesten the desired effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadyn.williams Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 for an image on a video screen to be discernible (I.e not just a mess of pixels) by eye then for every 10m back from the screen you can increase the pitch (distance between LED pixels) by 1mm. So for a screen with a 3mm pitch, the audience would have to be at least 30m for theirs eyes to be able to see what the image was. If you're talking about having your closest audience members 10m from the screen from the screen then that's a 1mm pitch which is (relatively speaking) a pretty high definition in terms of LED screens. I think your numbers are out :ph34r: I was looking at 10mm pitch from about 10m away and it was seamless... Aha, whoops, you are correct, somehow I daftly managed to put mm instead of cm! Not my smartest moment... I'll edit the original post so it's correct (assuming it is correct this time!) Edit: hmm, apparently I can't edit my earlier post - maybe one of the mods could do it for me so it's a little more useful ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter F Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 General rule of thumb is 1mm pitch per metre minimum viewing distance. So, 10mm pitch, minimum viewing distance 10m.20mm pitch, minimum viewing distance 20m. Not a hard and fast rule but clearer than Hadyn's wandering decimal point. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The main screen on the X Factor is Toshiba TR2006 IIRC (or certainly used to be) - lovely product, but as the others have said not cheap. LED is priced per week - even if only a 1 day show. 10mm SMD is about £250/sqm/week, 6mm being significantly more.... I'd second the projector option for you as possibly the optimal price/tech solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandMA_the_2nd Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If your happy with low res look at products like P30 from PRG, it hangs like a drape, low weight and quite inexpensive to hire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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