Manual Handling

[Suzette]

Oh dear - I didn't mean to start big rows on manual handling .... yes I do agree with all the posts regarding training, RA, PPE, etc. The poll idea only cam about after a discussion with a colleague about lifting steeldeck and how some venues seem to use 4 or more people and others only 2 people - to lift the same size decking a similar distance across a flat stage.

But yes, back problems can often take years to materialise..... so lifting properly from the start is best ....

Interesting that 78% of the poll use 2 people. I wonder if that is because the risk assessment says 2 is OK or because the finance dept say you have 2 people??

[andy_s]

Oh dear - I didn't mean to start big rows on manual handling .... yes I do agree with all the posts regarding training, RA, PPE, etc. The poll idea only cam about after a discussion with a colleague about lifting steeldeck and how some venues seem to use 4 or more people and others only 2 people - to lift the same size decking a similar distance across a flat stage. 

But yes, back problems can often take years to materialise..... so lifting properly from the start is best ....

Interesting that 78% of the poll use 2 people. I wonder if that is because the risk assessment says 2 is OK or because the finance dept say you have 2 people??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is because unless you can carry it flat, it is hard to get more than 2 people into useful lifting positions on a piece of deck.

[DSA]

From what I am reading, I think we are in a very similar situation here in Bristol (to Birmingham). Money is clearly not an issue (for crew fees) as we work FOC, but manpower is. Our numbers are steadily declining, and as a result there are just less people helping out at get-ins than there was five years back (or so I am told).

 

Whilst this is no real excuse, the same amount of work has to be done in limited time, and very often that will mean that there are just 2 people lumping the decks around. Whats more everyone has heard of Manual Handling and 'looking after your back' etc. etc., but when do the University Union ever provide any sort of advice/training on it?! I think it is seen as 'common sense'/'a waste of money'.

 

When you read this sort of thing it really drives the message home. I shall certainly be more wary of handling things now.

 

I do worry about the way our training system works - with current 'trained' students training the newbies, year on year. As far as I am concerned it turns into a sort of 'Chinese Whispers' situation, where the information gets less and less correct/as in depth, than it was say 10 years back.

 

And the Health and Safety guy in the building certainly cares, but as far as I can tell he thinks everything is just 'fine'. The only proper training sessions that have been provided since September have been for FOH managers (ie. box office etc.) . And even those are only run by the Training Manager (another student).

 

David

[sam.henderson]

I hate Steeldeck- we have quite a bit at a venue I use a lot and its horrible. Ok it is more tough than Metrodeck but It is heavier and generally more difficult!!

 

We use 2 people (4 if they are weak- never 3 because odd numbers don't seem to work!!).

 

Officially the venue asks us for 4 people per steeldeck section (one on each corner) but this hardly ever happens.

 

On a related story to Steeldeck my friend was assisting a Stage LX delivery person put some hired Steeldeck back onto his truck. They had piled it up and there were several (about 8) blocks on top of the bottom one! As he went to push it or lift (don't know exactly, I wasn't there) his hand got caught underneath. He yelped and the Stage LX guy tried to lift it off but by lifting it from the other end he exerted more pressure on the hand!! Eventually his hand was released- The bruising was awful!!

 

Sam

[SparkySteve]

I had a load of steeldeck fall on my arm in the back of a wagon - new guy pulled some legs out from between between the decks and the wall of the van and knocked the lot over. he didn't stop and carried on whilst my arm was trapped by steeldeck. I damaged the ligaments in my left forearm and the grazing and bruising was there for about six weeks. This was at my old place, professionally run theatre with every H&S guidline in place - steels, gloves, the works but a simple mistake by someone who doesn't understand the 'etiquite' (sp.) still leaves me with a dodgey left arm (only in the cold) but nontheless irritating! It could be said that it was my fault for simply standing in the wrong place at the wrong time - but what I'm trying to say is that even though guidlines nd training has taken place accidents will and syill do happen. I was unfortunate, I don't carry a grudge and the new guy learnt his lesson quick! - I'm quite often on a job and we use gallowglass crew and it always amazes me when I see one guy carryin a 8x4 on his own... there's a joke at the mo that at a Gallowglass interview you've got to pick a deck up and hold it at arms reach! - but I dread to think how many will have back problems later on in life! like Nick said earlier - if you don't feel a twinge it doesn't mean something's gone wrong!

 

Just my 2p's worth - feel free to tear it to shreds

[Jivemaster]

Accidents are inevitable, BUT, Hazard analasys, risk assessment, physical and mental training, and suitable tools for the job, can reduce accidents to the truly unaviodable.

[Ben...]

From what I am reading, I think we are in a

Whats more everyone has heard of Manual Handling and 'looking after your back' etc. etc., but when do the University Union ever provide any sort of advice/training on it?!  I think it is seen as 'common sense'/'a waste of money'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They should do, if you demand it. My understanding of the legalities is fairly hazy, but I'm pretty sure that their duties to you (as volunteers) regarding H&S will be the same as if you were employees; so they have no excuse for failing to ensure that appropriate manual handling training is provided - just ask for it forcefully (but don't threaten them with potential civil suits in case they decide to close the theatre ;) )

 

I went on a manual handling course a few months ago; the interesting thing they said was that most people are reasonably good at picking up heavy things (like steeldeck) correctly (or, at least, know what they should be doing.) What they pointed out was that you need to make an effort to keep your back straight when lifting anything - pens, paperclips, books on the bottom shelf. The cumulative damage of bending your back twenty times a day to pick up light things is easily enough to cause problems (we were told.) I now keep my back straight picking up books, and don't pick up dropped pennies ;)

 

Other worrying thing on that course; out of 10 people (all working moderately physical jobs in TV) with a range of ages, all except me had some level of back problems ranging from mild twinges to chronic pain - and this was a random selection. Just saying...

 

Ben

[slim_mcslim]

I vote for option 8.

 

"get gallowglass to move it!"

[Andrew C]

They should do, if you demand it. My understanding of the legalities is fairly hazy, but I'm pretty sure that their duties to you (as volunteers) regarding H&S will be the same as if you were employees;

Ben

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You shouldn't need to demand it, they should be forcing you to attend! They have responsibilities to employees, volunteers, contractors & the general public.

[Guest lightnix]

Oh dear - I didn't mean to start big rows on manual handling ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think you have, it's something that is too often overlooked. This has been a very useful thread, thanks for starting it ;)

 

...but when do the University Union ever provide any sort of advice/training on it?! I think it is seen as 'common sense'/'a waste of money'...

...I do worry about the way our training system works - with current 'trained' students training the newbies, year on year.  As far as I am concerned it turns into a sort of 'Chinese Wispers' situation, where the information gets less and less correct/as in depth, than it was say 10 years back...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are right to be concerned, nobody should be training people, unless they have been trained as a trainer themselves. Once again, the University Union could be storing up major trouble for themselves in the future, in terms of litigation. Get the powers that be in your venue to read this thread immediately and to follow the links out the the HSE sites I posted earlier.

 

And people wonder why insurance premiums are so high for entertainments ;)

 

You shouldn't need to demand it, they should be forcing you to attend!  They have responsibilities to employees, volunteers, contractors & the general public.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes along with anyone else likely to be affected by your / their actions. Employers not only have a duty to provide training and set up safe systems of work, but to enforce their daily operation, with measures which may include contractual obligations regarding observance of H&S procedures, backed up by written warnings and even sackings if necessary.

[Jivemaster]

The requirements for "safe system of work" apply to all people working for a management, and make no mention of remuneration, so they apply to volunteers. There are also requirements to ensure that the responsibilities are commensurate with the maturity of the people doing any task, especially where young people are concerned -- principally in the 16 to 18 age range where work experience is limited.

[Tomo]

Also have a look at the Manual Handling Assessment Chart (MAC) Tool

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many thanks for pointing this tool out!

 

That's going to be extremely useful for risk assesments - I keep trying to point this kind of stuff out to the "Safety Officer" on board my ship!

 

The attitude to safety here is very worrying - the crew receive ZERO training in manual handling and palletlift driving, and yet at the end of every cruise they are carrying luggage around on pallets and by hand.

While they are issued back supports to wear, they don't get any training on how to actually wear them correctly.

 

Of course, Mr "Safety" here doesn't care about firedoors either, so...

 

(There are several firedoors that won't close because they're broken - and yet he's never asked any of the ship's carpenters to fix them. I know he's aware of them - I sent a few of the emails myself!)

[Andrew C]

Of course, Mr "Safety" here doesn't care about firedoors either, so...

 

(There are several firedoors that won't close because they're broken - and yet he's never asked any of the ship's carpenters to fix them.  I know he's aware of them - I sent a few of the emails myself!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Panamanian registered are we? And why might that be? Avoid "onerous UK/EEC legislation", exploit Laskars... ? And how about the working Time Directive? Oh, see above. But the booze is cheap.

 

The bit about he firedoors is truly scary. Think "Herald Of Free Enterprise", so what if the doors open, the water won't get in / there won't be a fire. Glug!

 

I think in the light of that I shall avoid using...... for my world cruise TVM.

[safetygeek]

I have followed this string for a number of days/weeks and it bears out all I've been saying for the last 19 years in this business called show.

This is a work activity and so HASAWA 1974 and Manual Handling Regs 1992 apply.

Risk assessment is the most beautiful tool available to us all; if you don't know how to use it, please, please contact me and I'll try and help.

In my capacity as trainer I'm always amazed at how little tech and stage crew know about their rights and the scale of common ignorance aboutwhat you are entitled to/deserve.

I assist in presenting some of the best training in our industry as its presented by current and former tehs/crew and is relevant to what we do.

All you frustrated "lifters" out there, contact me and I'll try and help as best I can.

The Safety Geek.