vinntec Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I have a show coming with the stage and set angled at 20 degrees clockwise, which is causing me a few headaches. Along the back wall will be three large windows - however the backdrop of a wooden fence behind will be straight - so at SR end is almost touching one of the windows. This means to light anyone standing at the windows will cast a shadow onto the fence - not too bad for night scenes but rather unconvincing on a bright sunny day! I can minimise this by using almost every lantern I have to have at steeper and steeper angles the closer the to window I get but I am wondering about alternatives. For the windows I believe current intention is either to leave them blank or put clear gel/plastic on them - is there a treatment or alternative that would be worth suggesting to make LX easier? Peter Vincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyro_gearloose Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Move the backdrop back a bit so the shadows hit the floor instead? Or move the set forwards if you can't move the backdrop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billystag Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Can you get some light through the window. You could light the area of concern (the corner that is very near the fence) as sunlight through the window - like an upstage key. You could then ensure that the frontal lighting is feathered off this position. The shadow of the person would then go on the side wall making it look like sunshine. You could then use a suitable gel to enhance the effect. During a night time scene, you could try a similar thing with the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Move the backdrop back a bit so the shadows hit the floor instead? Or move the set forwards if you can't move the backdrop?Hi Mark - the stage+set are angled at 20 degrees clockwise which means it reaches almost the back wall and extends to DS of LX1. However, the backdrop actually has to be away from the back wall as this is the only way for LX/sound operators to get to their stations (which is on a perch SL to which there is no direct access). So in theory we could recover this gap and move the backdrop US (and leave set where it is) but as the stage floor isn't fully in place, the main tabs can't be used so they would have to be up there from house opening to house clear (or be visible going to/from so would at least have to be in costume). So no can't move set DS, but maybe could move backdrop US if I can convince the director... PV Can you get some light through the window. You could light the area of concern (the corner that is very near the fence) as sunlight through the window - like an upstage key. You could then ensure that the frontal lighting is feathered off this position. The shadow of the person would then go on the side wall making it look like sunshine. You could then use a suitable gel to enhance the effect. During a night time scene, you could try a similar thing with the moon.Hi Billy - I can get sunlight through two of the windows but the most SR one close to the backdrop will be a problem - but I might be able to approximate this by fanning all three "suns" from a single extreme SL position US. But this will only be a backlight to someone close to the window so some facelighting will still be needed. But I see what you are suggesting and will see what the options are once the set is up (built in situ). PV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightingyoung Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Could you do it with side light? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyld Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I suspect that a lot of concrete suggestions may be hampered by available angles, which we don't know, but that's where the issue is to be solved. One of the most common questions I get from amdram-in-small-hall type groups is how to stop the french windows putting shadows on the skycloth. A number of the above answers basically address the actual issue: light coming from the front that is angled in such as way as to pass straight through the window and the punters can see the shadows. The solution is to change that angle to move the shadows so they fall out of sight - or get rid of them. Sometimes you can steepen the light coming from the front in that area, plus cheat some more distance between the set and the cloth. As others have suggested, why not completely rethink the keylight? No need to ditch facelight all together, just be clever about it, using what you have available (and usually for "realistic" lighting, what is plausible too.) This is where an accurate section drawing comes into it's own, as you can completely plan your shadows, er, out the window (sorry) Sections or any other drawings other than a bog standard LX plan are scarce with many groups. Not completely helpful to the OP in this instance, but I also suggest to such groups that perhaps they should give the box-set-with-french-windows a miss once in a while and be a bit more creative with their production design. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 I suspect that a lot of concrete suggestions may be hampered by available angles, which we don't know, but that's where the issue is to be solved. ... The solution is to change that angle to move the shadows so they fall out of sight - or get rid of them. Sometimes you can steepen the light coming from the front in that area, plus cheat some more distance between the set and the cloth. As others have suggested, why not completely rethink the keylight? No need to ditch facelight all together, just be clever about it, using what you have available (and usually for "realistic" lighting, what is plausible too.)...Hi Rob - in this case it is the interior of a railway carriage and the windows are part of the plot so essential (Breaking the Silence). In my outline design in WYSIWYG, I have done exactly as you would expect - FOH and LX1 shuttered/barn doored to suitable places on the back of the carriage (where the windows are) and a third row as close as I can get away with at a steep angle for people close to a window. Because the stage/set is angled and the LX bars are not, this is not a perfect fit but just about possible. It does use up a lot of lanterns as low grid + steep angle = small coverage but if this is the best approach then all I need to do is fine tune to remove excess lanterns (as I am using almost the entire rig!). PV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinntec Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Move the backdrop back a bit so the shadows hit the floor instead? Or move the set forwards if you can't move the backdrop?Hi Mark - the stage+set are angled at 20 degrees clockwise which means it reaches almost the back wall and extends to DS of LX1. However, the backdrop actually has to be away from the back wall as this is the only way for LX/sound operators to get to their stations (which is on a perch SL to which there is no direct access). So in theory we could recover this gap and move the backdrop US (and leave set where it is) but as the stage floor isn't fully in place, the main tabs can't be used so they would have to be up there from house opening to house clear (or be visible going to/from so would at least have to be in costume). So no can't move set DS, but maybe could move backdrop US if I can convince the director... PVThe best words you want to hear speaking to director and set designer are "yes, that would be alright if it makes lighting easier"! The backdrop has gone back a few feet up to the backwall so will make the problem of shadows on the backdrop a little easier. PV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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