ImagineerTom Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 This has just happened for the third time this year so I though it was time to see how everyone else deals with this sort of situation... When initially quoting & tendering for design/creative jobs (where the quote is an outline of what you'd do, not just a raw list of services and hours) I've included outline suggestions / designs as to what I'd do, principle themes / big ideas, the usual stuff. After going through various meetings & discussions and ultimately not getting the job (and not being paid, it's a tender after all) I've been mildly annoyed but c'est la vie; then I've subsequently discovered that the show/event has gone ahead using elements I've created/contributed/suggested in my proposals. I'm not talking about subtle things or elements that others would stumble upon but great big, distinctive, creative ideas that are undoubtedly mine (in one case the element used is something which has been a distinctive signature part of my work for the past 3 years!). In the latest occurance the whole matter has been handed over to my solicitor who's confident of a win because it's such an open and shut case with a papertrail that proves the elements they've taken were my suggestion submitted as part of our tender (which was on the basis that we would get the job) and distinctly different to their in-house or previous works. Ultimately I'm going to be proven right and "win" but as this is the third time it's happened this year (with reputable big name arts/theatre companies each time) I'm keen to know if it's just me that's experiencing this sudden upturn in plagiarism or if there's been a broader relaxation of creative ethics and what steps everyone else takes to try to prevent it from happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 If the job is a creative one, then expecting all this before being offered the job seems wrong. They engage the designer, and then get the design. It seems you are giving the design away in the pre-contract meetings, that should be post-contract. If they're strangers, then your past work and the evolution of that show your quality, and they get your energy. Your contract would normally have all these features as protected items - but if they get them early, although it's wrong, they are quite likely to nick them, not expecting you to take action. If this is how you prefer to work, and you have a legal expert on tap, why not get him to draw up some short but effective small print you could include on your emails as a footer message, and perhaps on A4 paper when you give them sketches and ideas - so they get the hastily scribbled idea you thought up, with a warning that all intellectual property remains yours bla bla bla? I'm not saying your way of working is bad - but it is prone to pinching. I hope the case goes well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 I do have all the relevant copy write and protective legal statements in place - in the grand scheme of things I'm in the right and will win; it's just rather noticeable that there seems to have been a shift in ethics such that people & organisations (who really should know better) seem to think it's ok to help themselves to others work without any attempt to credit or recompense. It's also worth pointing out that we're not submitting designs and detail (none of that until you've paid your money!) but as part of the bidding process you have to provide indicative information, overall ideas and outline concepts of what you'd do. By way of an example what's happened might happen is that we pitched in line with their initial request and made a few outline suggestions which are different to what they've previously done (for example, if the original intention was for a show touring #2 level proscenium receiving houses and we provide a solution for that but also suggest it would work better touring as a theatre-in-the-round piece at garden centres, performed by midgets) and low and behold 3 months after being told they're not using us they've announced a national tour of garden centres with their innovative new in-the-round staging using short actors. This is a deliberately ridiculous example but it is this level of blatant plagerism that we're experiencing and whilst after lots of messy legal stuff we'll win I'd much rather avoid the whole process from ever occurring. Am I just spectacularly unlucky in getting this so frequently this year or are others experiencing something similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 What does the invitation to tender say? It may have signed away your rights already. If you have and go to court it could be expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Sadly this is quite common in many industries, I've even heard of interviewees for jobs being asked their solution to a problem and the solution being used without employing the person. Your biggest problem will not be winning the case but getting recognition as the creative without getting recognition as a trouble maker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 While being a nosey forum - we do need to ensure we don't compromise any action he may or may not be taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 I've kept it sufficiently vague to protect the innocent (if there are any theatre-in-the-round productions in garden centre's I apologise) and as I've alluded above /legally/ it's an open and shut case. It just seems odd that it's happened more times this year than in my previous 13 years :-s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Lots of people are "saving costs" and this could be their way, get lots of tenders and use all the best bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMitchell Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Most of the pre-contract site meetings we attend are at the stage where the contract is the formality and next step, rather than at the tendering stage, however attendance is always subject to a small fee (usually £150+vat) in the event that the booking does not progress for whatever reason. To date, we have, touch wood, never had to invoke the fee, as the work has always gone ahead. If an event did not progress, at least the fee would cover expenses and a couple of hours time. Obviously if a potential client backed out at the eleventh hour and gave a competitor copies of our tech spec, and plans, we would not be best pleased! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonino Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 What does the invitation to tender say? It may have signed away your rights already. If you have and go to court it could be expensive. <disclaimer - always get your own legal advice> of course at that point there is probably only consideration being offered from one party and therefore it wouldn't be a valid contract under English & Welsh law, and therefore not enforceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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