New lighting desk for a 250 capacity rock venue

[Alec]

I'm the house engineer for our local 250 capacity rock venue, and have been asked to help spec up a move from our (don't laugh) 4 profile spot plus 4 par can lighting rig to something a little more fun with a bundle of LED cans for backlight candy.

 

So, right now we have a dimmer installed which we'll retain for the 4 profile spots which provide front light. We would like to replace the 4 rear mounted par cans with 12 (at the moment) LED par 64s (may keep the old par cans, but not sure yet). I'm content with the fixtures and the need to run hard power and DMX to the cans.

 

My challenge is on a suitable, and reasonably priced desk that will cope with this, with a little room for expansion. We currently have one of the GLP 12/24 SceneSetter desks. I'm assuming that this will prove inadequate as the LED cans, which we'll probably address as pairs, need 5 DMX channels each, even though I'm assuming we'll be controlling them as simple 3 channel RGB in practice.

 

What kinds of budget (and it has to be, sadly) desks can we get away with? How well could we patch, say, a 24/28 SceneSetter to have 3 RGB faders per fixture pair? If we could do that, then I'd be happy that we could use it to preset a whole load of scenes & chases on the bottom row. Or are we better off with one of these smaller style units: LED Commander, DMX Operator, although they look more suited to movers.

 

We're not ruling out movers/scanners for the future, but the main need is to handle up to 8 conventional fixtures, plus a good handful of LED cans. We're certainly not aiming to spend stacks on the desk, as we will rarely have a dedicated light op anyway, so cheap and simple is the aim.

[timmeh2]

Hi

 

For all those about to suggest a Chamsys MagicQ, I've beaten you to it.

 

If you prefer not to have a PC-based solution, then any old Avo Pearl 2000 would do the job very well.

 

All the best

Timmeh

[Alec]

Remember folk, it's a small rock venue with a range of uses and users. Much as PC control would work admirably in many respects, it needs to be a simply to use & instant hardware.

 

So, back to hardware controllers under £500, please...

[Wol]

Remember folk, it's a small rock venue with a range of uses and users. Much as PC control would work admirably in many respects, it needs to be a simply to use & instant hardware.

 

So, back to hardware controllers under £500, please...

 

To be honest, those desks you linked to aren't quite up to the job of running what you want if you're factoring in future proofing at all. You may be able to run the LED stuff off the showtec one if you group stuff up together, and then put the generics onto there as well somehow. If you've got 12 x 3ch LED fixtures, thats 36 channels already if you want individual control of each, so thats possibly a few too many for the GLP SceneSetter.

 

As soon as you throw a mover or scanner into the mix, neither of those desks will fare particularly well with them. You may be better off now spending a little bit more to provide a control solution that will last you for longer, rather than buying something cheaper now, and then having to buy again if you start getting more kit at a later date.

[timmeh2]

OK

 

There is a masterpiece 216 on fleabay for £350 if that takes your fancy!

 

All the best

Timmeh

[sleah]

This could actually be a job for.... wait for it....... the Behringer LC2412 :o

Cheap & cheerful, will handle generics & LED cans (although no 'personallities' as such - but LED is often simple anway) and is programmable and easy to use if just setting up some simple chases.

[Tomo]

The Behringer LC2412 is pretty much the same as the GLP12/24 the OP already has, so I don't really think that's suitable.

 

For £500 you are not going to get a new console that will handle any more than the kit you're just getting, and it'll be a struggle to squeeze your current proposed kit in.

 

I agree with Wol's post - you are almost certainly going to be better off paying a bit more now for a console that will handle the kit you buy or hire next year as well as the kit you're buying now.

 

That said, looking at EBay you may be able to get something like an Avolites Azure console second-hand.

 

- Usual cautions apply to buying off EBay of course.

[Alec]

The Behringer LC2412 is pretty much the same as the GLP12/24 the OP already has, so I don't really think that's suitable.

 

Well, although I prefer most of the functionality of the GLP12/24, the one neat thing the LC2412 has is a DMX soft patch, so I could effectively "discard" the unused DMX channels for the LED cans and use just three channels (RGB) for each. If only the GLP SceneSetter desks could do that, I'd be much happier with them (in terms of squeaking by for the price).

 

For £500 you are not going to get a new console that will handle any more than the kit you're just getting, and it'll be a struggle to squeeze your current proposed kit in.

 

That was my fear, but ultimately I know we've got to buy something suitable for the job. I suspect we might phase things and get the fixtures/cabling in first and run it slightly compromised for most shows (say, three banks of 4 grouped cans) off the current GLP12/24, and then look to replace the desk next year.

 

And I might be tempted for the cheap Chamsys MagicQ option for the few bigger name nights when more's needed.

[greenalien]

There is a masterpiece 216 on fleabay for £350 if that takes your fancy!

 

It's up to £395 now - at least someone recognises a bargain when they see it! Still cheap considering that they are over £1800 new.

[jexjexjex]

I'm currently selling an ETC Smartfade 12/48 on Ebay - still boxed with all it's bits and bobs - £550.00.

 

To the OP, if you're interested, send me a PM.

[collism]

Actually even with £500 budget I would go with the Magic Q PC option and have done in similar scenarios.

 

If you are good enough at programming Magic Q, then it can be made absolutely simple by appropriately designed execute screens, and a short training session for the operators. I would generally recommend having the dual interface, as this allows full functionality and makes the setup relatively idiot proof, although obviously the single universe dongle might be the only option if the venue cannot source a spare PC (can be pretty low spec).

 

The advantage of this setup is flexibility and expandibility: If you need something extra then its easy to hire a PC wing, or maybe add a touchscreen, and if an experienced operator wants something more programming wise then they can do this if they are supplied with the password at relatively little risk (Give venue a USB stick with programming backup or burn onto CDR). Also you have potentially 1024 channels of DMX at your disposal for adding movers or anything else and clone/warp functions which make adding extra fixtures a good deal easier!

 

Obviously having no physical faders is less fun though - but is less daunting for training new operators from scratch.

[mrboo]

Go for a 48 Scene Setter? Cost About £230 it be as same as your old desk just more faders. or look out for a 2nd hand Martin Light jockey dong and use your old desk with the Light jockey software to send 24 DMX channels to playback cues.

[Alec]

Go for a 48 Scene Setter? Cost About £230 it be as same as your old desk just more faders.

 

I think that's likely to be our interim budget selection. And, if it had a softpatch capability, I'd be 100% happy with it - I just wish I could hide the non RGB channels on the LED cans, as they'll only cause problems in the heat of the moment!

 

I've also ordered up a MagicDMX dongle - at that price it would have been rude not to. That way I can have a play, and possibly run some of the bigger shows from that if need be. It's not the cost of the PC that's the problem, it's more that the venue has a variety of occupants from the bigger name shows, all the way down to private parties & craft fayres, at which point you just want to be able to point to the first two faders on a physical desk to bring up the house lights!

 

I have been surprised at the price gulf between the £200 and under desks and the more capable ones...

[mrboo]

Go for a 48 Scene Setter? Cost About £230 it be as same as your old desk just more faders.

 

I think that's likely to be our interim budget selection. And, if it had a softpatch capability, I'd be 100% happy with it - I just wish I could hide the non RGB channels on the LED cans, as they'll only cause problems in the heat of the moment!

 

I've also ordered up a MagicDMX dongle - at that price it would have been rude not to. That way I can have a play, and possibly run some of the bigger shows from that if need be. It's not the cost of the PC that's the problem, it's more that the venue has a variety of occupants from the bigger name shows, all the way down to private parties & craft fayres, at which point you just want to be able to point to the first two faders on a physical desk to bring up the house lights!

 

I have been surprised at the price gulf between the £200 and under desks and the more capable ones...

 

What I will warn about is that the lower cost desks do the job but the faders jump if you got lots of bass or you endup breaking them if you don`t use then with kids gloves.

[MrBoomal]

I must say, I've never heard of that before. You must have some seriously loud bass.

 

I don't think that's going to be to important to the OP's pantomime but you never know.

 

I would stick to my original suggestion of a Frog.

Buy from somewhere like "Used Lighting". They will have fully tested the desk and will give you six months guarantee.