Andrew C Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm looking for recommendations (or indeed warnings, by PM if you wish) of current consultants and/or architects that have recent experience, and the necessary skills, to work on a project to add a wing and fly tower to a 250 seat theatre. I could Google, but I'd only see glossy pictures from the outside of fabulous looking buildings. I want someone who understands the needs of people actually using the product! Where are we going to hide the dirty old lanterns? Dimmers; do you still use those? Oh, the stage has to be flat does it? ;) Preferably practising in the South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domroz Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Charcoal Blue- experts I'm looking for recommendations (or indeed warnings, by PM if you wish) of current consultants and/or architects that have recent experience, and the necessary skills, to work on a project to add a wing and fly tower to a 250 seat theatre. I could Google, but I'd only see glossy pictures from the outside of fabulous looking buildings. I want someone who understands the needs of people actually using the product! Where are we going to hide the dirty old lanterns? Dimmers; do you still use those? Oh, the stage has to be flat does it? ;) Preferably practising in the South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_s Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The Society of Theatre Consultants has a list of members and contact emails. Some of the Charcoalblue chaps are on it, along with some of their "rivals"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderick Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Although based in Amsterdam, worth having a chat to:Gerbrand Borgdorf (gerbrand@theateradvies.nl)Check their website for references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImagineerTom Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I could point to 2 recent charcoal blue "flagship" projects they boast about on their website which have exactly the fundamental (basic) problems you're looking to avoid.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddison Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 As Domroz says, Charcoal Blue are great in that field. As are both Theatre Plan and Theatre Projects... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ripley Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Once you've trawled through the ideas above, look on their websites and find some recent projects similar to yours.Then contact the theatres and see how it works from the users end.Often in these cases the technical staff are the 'end users' and therefore the last people to be consulted, the discussions sometimes happen between the 'client' (ie who is paying for it) and the design team - architects, consultants etc etc.Tech staff can end up as interested bystanders who can't directly comment and so things slip through Obviously it's easier from a consultant's point of view if the end user is available to talk to, often venues appoint at the end of a process and so the incoming technical team are faced with a fait accompli, which may not be to their liking or doesn't actually meet production requirements. Remember you are the one who is having to run this theatre, you know how you want it to work and what your productions need. Make sure you have direct input to the technical design process. Listen to what the consultants have to say but ultimately it should, ideally be your choice. PM me if you want further info and some horror stories! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 +1 to what David Ripley said. Assuming you're involved in the project, rather than looking for an architect you can just say "build me a fly tower" to, far better to find one that you can work with and who is willing to listen when you say you need X, Y and Z included. Working with an architect should be a collaboration. My experience is in building TV studios but the best projects were the ones where we would say "the studio has to be 1500 square feet, proportioned at about 30X50. We need storage of X, 4 dressing rooms, control rooms to a certain spec and access to load sets up to whatever size". The architect then goes away and tries to fit this into the rest of the project. Inevitably there is some back and forth about how things inter-relate but, in the end, we get what we need but probably laid out in a better way (and with fewer wasted corners) than we could have done for ourselves. Things go wrong when the people who have to use the space just hand the whole thing to an architect or consultant without staying involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daifuse Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Another +1 for David's comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 We own the building, so there isn't a real risk of something totally useless. What I need is guidance towards known "good guys". Thanks for the comments so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Keep clear of general architects practices even if they boast of having experience of this kind of work - I could take you to a theatre in South Hants where there is one reason and one reason only for the need to install a glass balcony front even though the space is as pretty as a picture. Indeed I wouldn't involve architects at all until you have compiled a detailed design brief yourself. After all there are standards for fly towers which pretty well fix the dimensions and the equipment is pretty standard too - you should be able to do a working setting out drawing yourself. You are in charge so make sure you have your wish list first. As far as the wing space is concerned also look a bit wider. The building mentioned above was designed to accommodate visiting companies - pity the same practice didn't specify the right grade of tarmac outside to take an LGV! One other thing. Architects are fond of specifying non-standard door furniture, light fittings etc even having doors etc. made to their own specs. Do not have any truck with this otherwise it will cost you big bucks down the line when it comes to replacements. In the same building they specified fancy panic bolts each set of which took a, specially sourced, joiner a day to install. Insist on standard, widely available, parts and materials., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ripley Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Andrew If you don't already have it get yourself a copy of the ABTT Yellow Book Technical Standards for Places of Entertainment This is what any architect or consultant should be working to. If they aren't show them the door. As it is also co published by the District Surveyors Association and the Institute of Licencing adhering to it will help smooth the way for planning permission, licencing etc It's £50 ish depending on whether you are an ABTT member but worth it. Architects with theatre experience: Haworth Tompkins, RHWL Arts Team, Dixon Jones etc. A quick search on the RIBA site will give you loads. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Keep clear of general architects practices even if they boast of having experience of this kind of work - I could take you to a theatre in South Hants where there is one reason and one reason only for the need to install a glass balcony front even though the space is as pretty as a picture. Indeed I wouldn't involve architects at all until you have compiled a detailed design brief yourself. After all there are standards for fly towers which pretty well fix the dimensions and the equipment is pretty standard too - you should be able to do a working setting out drawing yourself. You are in charge so make sure you have your wish list first. Well, I'm at least partially in agreement with the above. The important thing is to be clear in your own mind what your needs are and communicate those needs to the architect. A detailed technical brief along with a set of drawings is essential. Assuming you do the above, I'm less certain about the suggestion to keep clear of general architects. Most of the architects I've worked with have not claimed to specialise in theatre or TV work (at least not until they worked with us!) and, providing they can understand your brief and share your vision for how things can work, this has not been a problem. Indeed, during the selection process we interviewed a "specialist" architect and it became obvious that they had done work for a certain well-known British broadcaster and assumed everyone's needs would be the same. When working on a technical space, I believe the architect's job should be to take YOUR brief and make it look good, adhere to relevant regulations and be space efficient. It's not their job to dictate what they think you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticks Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 PM sent. Ian SticklandCharcoalblue ltd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Slight thread necromancy...Any newcomers in the field that have come to the fore since the last post?Our designs on a new theatre complex are raising their head again now and I ne to have a couple of three solid discussions with qualified company reps before we go further. I've already been in contact with CharcoalBlue, and am awaiting responses from the other two mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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