gyro_gearloose Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Hi The multicore run in our venue currently involves taping the cables to handrails, running them over two doors, and using some hooks high up on the wall. In short, a bit of a mess. What we would like to have is some sort of tray set into the floor to tidy things up a bit. I've tried Googling for a solution, but the only cable trays I've found don't have an easily removable lid. The lids are usually bolted down as the trays are intended for permanent cable runs, and aren't meant to be continually opened and closed. I also need something which is suitable for use in wooden floors and can be run at 90 degrees to the joists without weakening the floor. Does such a product exist, or should I be looking at simply running a big bit of plastic pipe under the floor? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth A Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Big plastic pipe - with 2 ropes! One for the pulling and one as a spare in case someone forgets to retie the rope on multicore removal. If possible and can gain access put access points in on the big bends and treat each straight section as an individual piece. If you can't, the use rounded corners and not 90' flat corners. ! More change of the rope eventually breaking or the cable rubbing and cutting into it.! Seen this in many places on tour! Remote control car for rope re-threading is usually fun also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb304 Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 If you've got space for the excess rope another option is to have a rope just over twice as long as the duct, and then permanently fix the ends so that it can't be pulled out, but the extra length allows it to be used. Also if going the plastic tube route make sure you allow plenty of spare capacity, as from experience trying to squeeze extra cables into an already full duct isn't fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianW Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 ..... And when we say big, we mean BIG! I ain't unsoldering that 128/256pin Harting connector and refitting it again on the otherside of the duct for no-one! A length of 150mm sewage pipe is NOT big enough! Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedd Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Whilst I've seen the pipe trick done before, there's always that moment when you realise you need an extra comms line, or a DMX line starts playing up, when you just need to drop in an extra cable after the pull has been done. Major pain in the bum. In terms of draw robes, I once saw a system where the rope was looped around and there was a pulley that it passed through at each end. It meant you never lost your rope but more than that, meant you could pull the end of the cable back and forth if there was a snag without having to pull on the actual cable. The pulleys were big enough to allow knots to pass through. Whilst the lift off lid route would be ideal, I've looked for similar items to kit out a church stage before and couldn't find anything. They ended up making MDF lids and sticking carpet to the top of them - guess how long the carpet lasted before the edges peeled! All the Front of House dips that I've seen have been an aluminium frame/edging around a thick plywood board with carpet on top. I don't doubt that they could have been made in house, but there must be somebody out there making the things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJones Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I think Andolite would be able to make something to suit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramdram Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 If you use the walls for hooks anyway then you might be able to run a cable tray along the route you use. Said trays could run over the door frames. We had them all over Bush House and carried the cabling wherever. This is because it was not possible to make cable trenches, it being a rented building. And any holes in a wall would be quite simple to fill and redecorate when the lease was ended. Newer purpose built stations were riddled with cable ducts/trenches and where I worked were covered in "un"stuck carpet tiles if ever the need arose to add extra runs to the trench. The "beauty" of cable trays is that you can add extra cable without needing to open any ducts or worry about carpets. The ones I saw were perforated metal strips about 150mm or so wide and about 2mm thick. Wall brackets were bent metal, painted to match the original decor. The cables were tied on with some type of wax covered cable twine stuff which was easily cut if moving cables. You could use the very small cable ties for convenience although that solution would not be cheap if you needed to run a lot of cable a long way. You will recognise that the cables can be colour coded or marked so that you could trace the route if you found the tray system got used for other runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 just put some more hooks in,wilkinsons ladder hooks are ideal for the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Another one for hooks here. Even in some of the best venues in the country (generally the ones without a house system) still just use hooks around the walls. As somebody said, ladder hooks work fine. Put them up as high as you like, and use a big wooden stick with a hook on the end to lift the cable up and dump it in the hooks on the wall. Simple and effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Siddons Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Another one for hooks here. Even in some of the best venues in the country (generally the ones without a house system) still just use hooks around the walls. As somebody said, ladder hooks work fine. Put them up as high as you like, and use a big wooden stick with a hook on the end to lift the cable up and dump it in the hooks on the wall. Simple and effective. I agree until you get the safety rep of the building insisting its not struck until every punter has left the building and your wearing a hard hat whilst poking it with your pole in a 3m exclusion zone! BTW what you save on not digging up your floor can be put to a nice digital desk with Cat5 cable ...so much easior! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramdram Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Hooks certainly would do the job but having done this at our VH I found the weight of 6 runs of 2.5mm H07 tended to make a fairly deep indent into the outers of lowest cable of the bunch actually in contact with the hook. The cable was up for a week or so. On some of the hooks I was able to sleeve them with the outer sheath of the H07, but found I could not get all the cables in. Hence the suggestion of a cable tray. That said it is worth a review of the hook size and an attempt at sleeving the greater diameter of the steel bar of the larger hooks. I did like the idea of the notched stick...far, far safer than clambering up a ladder every few feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigclive Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Note about running multiple cables in a single pipe or duct with an "endless" rope loop. You will end up pulling a cable in between a heavy clump of cables, and it will inevitably cause damage to outer sheaths by rubbing a channel through them. It's better to put multiple cables in together by offsetting them. That way inter-cable chaffage is minimised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Another vote for hooks here. Don't do the pipe/draw rope thing. Always a pain in the rear. Leggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramdram Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Continuing vote for cable tray. I have watched the BT lines blokes doing a pull through with a new FO cable in our village. It must have been multi fibre stuff as the OD was over 25mm. They used a wire basket grip sheath which tightens as you pull and loads and loads of lubricating grease, buckets of it in fact. The bit at the front, attached to the wire basket, looked like a bullet sort of shape. The pull through was this blue polyprop rope stuff and had to be winched through it was so heavy and the gap obviously pretty narrow. The BT blokes thought it was a pita too, ** laughs out loud **. If aesthetics not an issue for a permanent install I'd still opt for a cable tray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadhippy Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Ramdram,knowing the venue in question cable tray would be a pita to install with all the piller and non square walls.O and those wire baskets are knowen as pulling socks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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