Aaron-Hill07 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I'm quite a keen theatre go-er and enjoy watching west-end shows however there's something that's beginning to bug me and I'm genuinely interested to know if it's just me that's noticed it and also if there are any good reasons for it... In the past few months I've seen a few shows (Billy Elliot, WWRY, Les Mis etc..) and there is one thing that always leaves me confused.. those three shows in particular I've seen before (probably between a year and 18 months ago) and most recently I've definitely noticed that the sound is generally quieter. When I go to see a west-end show, I want to hear everything and honestly, I want to hear everything nice and loud. Now, the vocal part of shows is fine, in fact I'd go as far to say as the standard vocals are a perfect level. However, musical numbers (particularly in Billy Elliot) the music seems a lot quieter than the first time I saw it. It literally does sound like someones taken the band and turned them right down in the past few months for some reason or another.. I'm just interested to know if anyone else has noticed that or if there a genuine reason for level's being lower FOH? Aaron :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biro Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Sound is Subjective. Perhaps you are getting deafer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingstech Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Saying that, I saw grease a year ago just before it went on tour, and the band, I wished that had turned down. Bass was too loud, and I dont know if it was the amplifiers or speakers near us that were loud, but everything sounded wrong. Just my 2p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Aaron, the first response may have been light-hearted but can I take the opportunity to reiterate that unless you have regular hearing checks, the last person to know your hearing is suffering is yourself. We who work in an environment where noise is NOT "unwanted sound" need to be careful with the tools of our trade, hence Visual Display User sight checks and hearing tests. Pardon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron-Hill07 Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Kerry - very good point indeed.. however I do have hearing checks 3 times a year and although my hearing sensitivity has dropped very slightly (only by parts of a db) it certainly wouldn't quite make that much difference. Luckily for me, I'm usually FOH so don't have the pain of sitting next to stacks of wedges all day long. Plus I always use custom hearing protection at all of my gigs :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb304 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 The only time I've found a west end show too quiet was when I went to see Wicked a few years ago. I was with 4 other people and they all agreed. We had however spent the day at PLASA and as others have commented in another thread PLASA is tiring on senses, so that might have accounted for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I wuld have to concur with this: Sound is Subjective When I've seen stationary show I've often felt that the system could give abit more, and often cold do with a bit more volume. However, I think the only shows I would want to be 'loud' would be more modern ones such as WWRY. Having said this. Often when I see touring shows (I worked on a touring show of laughter in the Rain and The Alhambra last year for instance) I was puzzled by the shear volume that was being used, something that I notice often, espiecially with out of proportion low end in relation to the rest of the spectrum There are some shows that undobtedly I would want to be nice and loud (Footloose for example) but I guess it's down to the engineer really. Personally I would go for a more sympathetic mix but again, that's just me. Just my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossmck Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 The only time I've found a west end show too quiet was when I went to see Wicked a few years ago. I was with 4 other people and they all agreed. We had however spent the day at PLASA and as others have commented in another thread PLASA is tiring on senses, so that might have accounted for it. The mix of Wicked changes quite a bit - I've seen it a few times and at least once that loud beat at the end of Defying Gravity (with the blackout) I'm convinced could be heard outside the theatre - which seemed 'right' for it imho. In general no, I don't think the west end is quieter FOH than it used to be - indeed there was a show I was at earlier this week where if anything it was a bit too loud given what the show was (again, in my opinion - but that said there's a reason I don't do sound ;)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Based on recent experience they are all far too loud, and yes I am beginning to think it is all down to impaired hearing at the sound desk! The other thing for me is that I find digital sound far more tiring on the ears than analogue used to be - when around thirty watts through an academy filter and a couple of Tannoys on big baffles would fill any theatre with ease! Oh well time for my Sanatogen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 You rinse your ears with Sanatogen???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 You rinse your ears with Sanatogen???? Never fails. Fortunately I don't need fortifying so don't need__________________ (Fill in the blank and show your age!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 If West End shows are getting quieter (and I haven't been back to London in a couple of years to give and opinion) this can only be a good thing. A musical isn't a death metal concert and shouldn't leave you with ringing ears. From my memory, Billy Elliot and Les Mis were fine last time I saw them but WWRY was stupidly loud, to the point it darn near spoiled it for me. I know WWRY is based on rock music and needs to be loud but, when I saw it, it came close to the pain threshold and had the edgy sound of a system being nearly over-driven. Billy Elliot and Les Mis are "traditional" musicals and I always think they should not sound amplified at all--if I was designing or mixing them I'd aim for the "everything heard but the reinforcement not noticed" style. The mix of Wicked changes quite a bit - I've seen it a few times and at least once that loud beat at the end of Defying Gravity (with the blackout) I'm convinced could be heard outside the theatre - which seemed 'right' for it imho. In general no, I don't think the west end is quieter FOH than it used to be - indeed there was a show I was at earlier this week where if anything it was a bit too loud given what the show was (again, in my opinion - but that said there's a reason I don't do sound ;)) I've only seen the Australian production of Wicked and didn't like the sound at all. The reinforcement was just too noticeable to the point that all I could hear was coming from the speakers with no "natural" sound or directional cues as to which character was talking or singing. I actually brought this up on a forum where I know the original designers hang out--and was told that (paraphrasing) they felt the same but that the style was dictated by the producers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoLiEn Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I think from what ive noticed in the west end of late, there seems to be a trend of making it a bit queiter so as to draw the audience in as they have to listen for every word.. whilst on the whole I agree things should not be at an ear piercing level, I do think this is being overdone a bit and the volumes on certain shows could be increased a few dB. Having said that, I seem to recall reading/being told that on WWRY, brian may went in there regulary to ask them to turn up the sound, and when refused said "do you know who the ###### I am.." etc. but as someone like him who has been on stage for years and unsuprisingly is probably suffering from a certain degree of hearing loss.... On that subject, I get hearing tests at the beginning and at the end of each season, and I self test once a month using the same settings and parameters from an osciliator, this allows me to track any potential problems, because as somebody said before, As a sound engineer, our ears are the tools of our trade, and we need to protect them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueShift Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I can tell you from having seen it many times and working in the Dominion, that WWRY is plenty loud! Their last anniversary special was quite possibly the loudest thing I have heard in a while. Its also probably the largest sound system in the west end, and is easily capable of 110dBA at FOH with plenty of amplifier headroom. It is vDosc after all! If anything, I reckon WWRY is getting louder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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