Firewire External sound card

[sigill]

Hello

 

Just after a wee bit of advice.

 

We have recently started using Sound Cue System for playback of sound effects and video in our theatre. Lovley bit of software and does what we need perfectly.

 

I am currently using the on board sound card which isn't great and even with a DI box there is still a fair bit of hiss.

 

I'm a lampy at heart and need to consider some options for an external sound card to improve the system.

 

The pc is currently running windows xp but will probably be upgrades to Windows 7 with in the next 12 months.

 

I need to be able out put to our LS9 and dont want to keep having to use DI boxes so guessing I need it to have balanced outputs and idealy XLR although using a jack 2 XLR cable wouldn't be a problem. I would also like to be able to ouput the desk back into the card for recording purposes again for ease of cabeling it would be great if these inputs were XLR. I have been adviced that Firewire is the best way to go and have a budget of up to about £300

 

Forgive me if I sound like a dumpty in the above but like I said I'm a lampy really so need a little advice.

 

Any ideas would be greatly recieved.

 

Many Thanks

 

Si

[martinnoble]

We too use SCS and have a firewire soundcard unit connected to it.

 

I'm at the theatre this evening, so will make a not of the make etc.

 

The only issue we have is sometimes SCS can't see the unit, but I think thats a windows XP issue with the firewire card, as if you shutdown the PC and move it to another firewire socket, it all works again.

 

Really need to find the time to rebuild the thing...

[Bobbsy]

How many inputs and outputs do you want? Just basic stereo or do you need multichannel working?

 

Your choice will grow immensely if you accept TRS line level inputs and outputs--XLR for line level is pretty rare.

 

I'd also suggest you seriously consider a USB 2 interface. Firewire can be a bit fussy in terms of chipset--and it's a technology on its way out. Many/most modern computers no longer offer it--which grieves me as I have a firewire to ADAT interface....

 

Anyhow, depending on the number of channels you need, there are a number to consider.

[sigill]

Thanks Martinnoble.

 

 

Bobbsy.....thank you for your advice to far. I have now also been further adviced by others to avoid Firewire so USB2 it is. TRS is fine for inputs an outputs. As far as how many goes. 4 outputs and 2 inputs would be fine. I guess in an ideal world it would be great to be able to switch the inputs between line/mic so it would be possible to record voice overs and the like with out having to use the sound desk.

 

Many thanks

[Bobbsy]

I'd definitely have a look at the M AUDIO FAST TRACK ULTRA then. Well within your budget and actually more inputs and outputs than you're asking for. I've been using a slightly earlier M Audio box for a couple of years now and it's been performing flawlessly...indeed I did a show today on it.

 

Bob

[boswell]

Look on the SCS forum, it has a list of soundcards that various users have confirmed work OK with SCS

I use a Roland/Cakewalk UA101, 8 ins, 8 outs, all balanced and works fine with SCS10.8

 

A small point, the ability for the inputs to be controlled and manipulated by SCS is not available yet but it's on its way. You will need to get the SoundMan Server software to do this.

If you want the inputs to bypass SCS and go to your recording software, then I don't see a problem, but I've not tried that (yet!)

 

HTH

[the kid]

As a quick fix take out the mains power.

 

My laptop used to run fine then got REALLY noisey when it was powered. I now unplug on standby and after the cue put back in.

I have run DI and it is ok but not GREAT. Someone did mention to me that doing a DI from desk to amps can be of some help as well but I am yet to try that.

[soundiesam]

I have a focusrite 24 DSP which I use exactly for what you wanna do. great sound card.

 

http://www.focusrite.com/saffire_pro_24_dsp/

 

 

sam

[martinnoble]

We have a Terratec Phase 88 FW:

 

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may05/articles/terratec88.htm

 

But I would probably agree with others - USB 2 is probably the way to go for future proofing, and would probably save the cost of a firewire card and driver issues etc

[peza2010]

I have a focusrite 24 DSP which I use exactly for what you wanna do. great sound card.

 

http://www.focusrite.com/saffire_pro_24_dsp/

 

 

sam

 

 

 

Don't bother with the DSP... the pro 24 standard would be just fine.

[Andrew Edwards]

Many of the in/out devices available appear to be either hybrid or only firewire (M-Audio still have 2 catagories however). This would suggest that it is USB (2) that is becoming obsolete for this market. Of course when Thunderbolt and USB3 start to filter down, then both USB2 and firewire will be on the out.

 

One thing to consider is that many of the smaller firewire devices can be powered by the bus, removing the need to yet another wallwart. However, laptops with 'the earth issue' can still colour the output of a device powered by the bus. This is also true for USB...I'm looking at you Ian Dell (tm Richard Herring).

 

I inherited a couple of Motu's (fireface and ultralite) and I'm not a big fan of the software. I only use to make sure that the input and outputs are going where they should and even just that is awkward.

[BlueShift]

Grab yourself an Echo Audiofire 12.

 

Its good value, 1u rackmount, IEC power, fully balanced outputs (although, on TRS jack, nothing a quick cable wont fix!). It also has fantastic front panel metering.

 

I use this a lot for multi-channel audio playback in a live context. Great units.

[sigill]

Thanks you all for your input on this.

 

The media department of the college where the theatre sits had a suplus M Audio 1814. Have plugged it in and it works a treat. All 4 outputs work perfectly with SCS and Audacity will multi track record with the 8 inputs. I even have managed to find 12 jack inputs/output conected to the old multi core which goes to my patch panel so the system now does exactly what I wanted it to.

 

Again many thanks to all that that posted.

 

:)

Si

[Bobbsy]

Many of the in/out devices available appear to be either hybrid or only firewire (M-Audio still have 2 catagories however). This would suggest that it is USB (2) that is becoming obsolete for this market. Of course when Thunderbolt and USB3 start to filter down, then both USB2 and firewire will be on the out.

 

One thing to consider is that many of the smaller firewire devices can be powered by the bus, removing the need to yet another wallwart. However, laptops with 'the earth issue' can still colour the output of a device powered by the bus. This is also true for USB...I'm looking at you Ian Dell (tm Richard Herring).

 

I inherited a couple of Motu's (fireface and ultralite) and I'm not a big fan of the software. I only use to make sure that the input and outputs are going where they should and even just that is awkward.

 

There are still lots of audio devices using firewire around but his is set to change rapidly as it's getting more and more difficult to get computers with firewire ports. USB3 or maybe Thunderbolt will be the next big thing but any big move is still a little while off. In the meantime, USB2 seems the fairly universal compromise.

 

I'd suggest big caustion using firewire devices with bus power. If you read the fine print, there is generally a manufacturer caution against hot plugging of firewire, particularly bus powered devices. I've not had any problems when I've accidentally done so but the horror stories abound...and sods law would dictate the problem would happen just before or during a show.

 

I agree that even balanced outputs on a USB (or, indeed, firewire) can still suffer from laptop noise. My solution is to feed too and from my digital mixer via TOSLINK fibres. Funny how all the problems go away when there's no copper connection between the two, just a piece of plastic or glass! However, when I can no longer put off replacing my laptop I'm seriously looking at going the Dante route and feeding data, not audio.

[sigill]

All working lovely........Or so I thought.

 

It kinda works.....** laughs out loud **

 

Out puts fine from 1/2 for front of house. But the output from 3/4 is about 35db lower.(using the test tone)

 

I am running the current version of SCS and have driver 5.10.0.5058 for the card on xp professional sp3

 

Am I missing a setting here somewhere?

 

I have tested all outputs with audacity and they work fine so dont think its a card or cable issue seems SCS is for some reason outputting at a lower level to the second pair of outputs.

 

Si