New desk for £500?

[brainwave-generator]

I understand what you are saying. Where would be the best place to try and find a fat frog desk? I found this on on ebay, does it look reasnable?

Thank you

 

Put bit more cash together and buy a Titan Mobile

 

For a few par cans and lasers in a church hall or whatever, there is simply no need to go buying that.

 

Plus you need a laptop, which means that everyone who wants to use it needs to bring their laptop in and install the software on it. Titan Mobile is ideal for touring lampies but for installation you need a standalone product. The nearest equivalent is a Pearl Tiger and they are expensive.

[peza2010]

But surely someone who doesnt know how to programme a desk won't be looking for anything special, ie. Have a page of submasters programmed with basic states, clearly labeled, so some one who "can just push a fader and see a light come on" can push one fader and see an okay state come on and then the main user can use the desk to it's full potential.

[stevefez]

Agree, movers need a brain (chip) However if there are to be other hirers using the hall then they need simple sliders even if the movers don't come on.

Is the Frog therefore not a fairly decent solution? In it's simplest form you can ignore the intelligent side altogether and with the right amount of basic programming and labeling, push a fader = lights on. Then when the evenings come that need them, the programming side is available for the scans.

 

NB: Still need some guidance on budget though. It being twice the value of the original figure talked about.

 

EDIT: Peza beat me to it, too slow!

[pritch]

Provided the operator can be trusted to reload some pre-defined states after a more demanding show, then yes a desk with a bunch of submasters could well be a good solution. In fact, the Frogs with the 6-channel remote input could be ideal, with some nice friendly buttons labelled on the wall.

 

Alternatively, if the dimmers are analogue as the OP has said, there's nothing to stop them wiring both a demux and their old analogue desk into the dimmers. Frog (or whatever) gets used for the more advanced stuff, and when the caretaker needs to shove a few lights on stage, they've still got their old familiar desk handy.

[collism]

If you wish to create something that can at one level be simple but at other times fulfill more complex requirements then I would give the Chamsys Magic Q idea some thought - even if you can only get the two universe dongle and no other hardware. We usual do something like this:

 

By good use of execute screen(s) which should be set to appear maximised by default, you can build a simple click screen that even a caretaker can use, indeed you can have a basic lighting state which boots up by default when the program is started.

 

When something more complicated is required then you can also build a second execute window as a busking screen and/or supply an administrator password to access the full program.

 

Although of course some level of skill with Magic Q would be needed to achieve all of this

[deskkky]

I can understand what you are saying, and your right it does need be simple enough to be used by un-technical people but also we would like some memory to have a few chases light, red, green, blue for a disco and songs in shows, with the speed adjusted real time with a fadder.

 

If we left the scanners out of the picture, would this desk or this one (which is better?)be ok for the 24 channels of dimming (top row) and the LED cans in pairs on the bottem row? If it is, the extra £300 for the showtec showdesigner of jester is just to make the scanners work then we could use than money for some other stuff? How about this one just for the scanners?

 

Would we be able to save static scenes for show scenes on it, as well as basic chases for disco, fast moving songs ext...?

 

I really appreciate all your assistance many thanks.

[paulears]

I rather suspect both the products roll off the same Chinese production line! The only difference will be 3 year guarantee and foreign mains plug vs the usual British guarantee and 3 pin plug!

[Ynot]

Hmmm....

I feel that some people here are running off a bit far in the wrong direction here when considering village halls...

 

Over the years, I've worked with and advised several local village enterprises, and when it comes down to lighting desks, the number of occasions where their stage lighting (of ANY sort) gets used is minimal. There may well be the christmas panto and one or two other fundraising shows during the year, and yes these will need to use the fancier desk, BUT it's likely that the village will have their 'tame' guy who'll come along and rig/operate for most shows, so the slightly more complex option like a Frog MAY well be viable.

 

Then you have discos, which may or may not be run by the same people, but I would certainly doubt that the caretaker would be the one who'd be expected to come in and turn on the lighting - they'd more likely give that to the deejay, who again MAY have a bit more nouse than the management of the hall.

 

But the bit that really made me chuckle was that ANY lighting desk would be needed for the general run of the mill day to day users like parish meetings, gym class for the locals, toddler groups etc. The meat & 2 veg of the hall's income wouldn't and shouldn't be affected by whatever desk is in use for stage lighting!!

 

 

[hajavalo]

My solution in a bit similar situation (mobile use but anyway...) was to buy a Jester 12/24 AND Enttec USB-DMX dongle. 95 % of gigs I use my own gear (pars, blinders, ledpars). Jester is fine for that.

Ok - bit more channels would be nice...

 

For gigs with rental/house movers I use Jester and Enttec + Chamsys MagicQ PC. By connecting Enttec thru Jester I can patch movers intensities to faders. Colors, positions, fx, etc playback with MagicQ keyboard shortcuts.

(Yes - programming movers with only mouse and keyboard is tricky)

 

This works for me and my budget. My gigs are mostly rock bands in small clubs and bars.

 

Like someone already said Jester 12/24 might not have enough faders/channels for OP's venue.

[deskkky]

The 3 year warranty is good, I guess you have to foot the bill on postage to and from Germany though to get it replaced/fixed?

[Matthew Robinson]

But the bit that really made me chuckle was that ANY lighting desk would be needed for the general run of the mill day to day users like parish meetings, gym class for the locals, toddler groups etc. The meat & 2 veg of the hall's income wouldn't and shouldn't be affected by whatever desk is in use for stage lighting!!

 

+1, couldn't you just use the house lights for that kind of thing?

[deskkky]

Just one last question, if I can.

I have never used a desk before with memory. I am a computer tec by trade so I feel confident that by reading the instructions I will be able to get it sorted. Is it like making an animation where you put the faders where you want then 'save that' called a scene? Then make another, save that, then a chase between the two using a fadder? The higher the fader the faster it will move between scenes right?

[GridGirl]

Just one last question, if I can.

I have never used a desk before with memory. I am a computer tec by trade so I feel confident that by reading the instructions I will be able to get it sorted. Is it like making an animation where you put the faders where you want then 'save that' called a scene? Then make another, save that, then a chase between the two using a fadder? The higher the fader the faster it will move between scenes right?

 

Sort of....it varies from desk to desk a bit but the general theory is that you set your state then save it as a scene - depending on the desk you can save the scene to its own fader (a submaster) or to a "cue stack". If you use the cue stack, you set the time for each scene to fade up and down and then all you do is hit the GO button to go from scene to scene. If you're using submasters, you simply bring the next one up as you take the previous one down - some desks will allow you to put times on those too so no matter how fast you shove the fader up, it will always happen over the same time. Usually with chases all you do is record in a slightly different way - you tend to record a sequence of states before assigning them, and most desks allow you to save a chase to a submaster or a cue in the stack in the same way you save a scene. The fader won't have an impact on the chase speed - the Frog desks (and a lot of others!) have a separate knob on them to vary the chase speed - but rather how bright the state or chase is.

[deskkky]

Thanks for that, makes me feel better :)

 

So would this desk be ok for what I want?

 

So basically if we do a play we could save a static scene to a fadder then push it up/down as the curtain goes up/down. But also if we do a musical we could make a lively chase to the same speed as the song?

 

Thank You :)

[peza2010]

Just one last question, if I can.

I have never used a desk before with memory. I am a computer tec by trade so I feel confident that by reading the instructions I will be able to get it sorted. Is it like making an animation where you put the faders where you want then 'save that' called a scene? Then make another, save that, then a chase between the two using a fadder? The higher the fader the faster it will move between scenes right?

 

sort of. but also not really.

desk with memory, whether that is submasters on faders, or execute button or a mixture can work in a few different ways.

 

save what you see: a avolite pearl for example (im not listing this as an option for a desk for the record).

you set up a look using the channel faders and/or the moving light options. once the lights are doing what you want, you can record a memory and place it on a submaster fader or an execute button on other desks.

 

Programming with a syntax: you type in channel numbers eg 1+5+7+10+12+17 @ (and then select an intensity for these channels) or @FULL the RECORD SUB 1

or RECORD cue 1. some desks allow you to place sub 1 anywhere, but other desks have the sub numbers and locations already defined.

 

there will undoubtedly be other ways, but theres just a couple.

 

 

Faders will let you control the intensity as you please, where as execute buttons just recall a predefined state with no other control.

 

 

Chases. chases are usually created as a separate entity, and you would programme the chase eg STEP 1 - red STEP 2 - blue STEP 3 - yellow and then you can store the chase onto a fader. You will also be able to select a speed (sometimes in Beats per minute, sometimes by time) and cross fade amount eg you want blue to be fading in as red is fading out.

 

some desks have flash buttons which when pressed bump the intensity of whatever is recorded on that fader to full, therefore allowing you to swap between submaster 1 and submaster 2 (eg red and blue) yourself. I often prefer this method as it allows you (if you someone that can feel or know where the beat/off beat is) to chase in perfect time, rather than the desk being "near enough"

 

with some desks (but possibly not at this budget range) when using moving lights, and shapes in particular - as you say the speed can be programmed to be controlled by a fader, but is generally an option you select when programming.

 

 

 

 

as a side point in line with the topic... what are the scanners like in sound to light or auto mode?

I personally wouldnt enjoy not having control over them myself as a lot of scanners can just go crazy in sound to light modes, and can ruin the effect your trying to achieve. I do like the idea of using magic q for just the scanners its cheap (£10.00 dongle) and most people have access to an old laptop nowadays. There are some great manuals/tutorials on the software on the web to get you going, and the inbuilt FX can have the scanners doing some nice things very quickly. then its just a case of firing them using the number buttons.

 

 

I took so long to write this (it didnt have my full attention that I was beaten to it)