Moving Heads for Dummies

[Zulu]

I've sniffed around for relevant threads, and found some great info. But for further help, here is my plight . . .

 

My 80 seat theatre has a traditional lighting set up:

24 channel DMX desk connected via a Demux box to 4 x 6 channel dimmers, driving traditional fixtures.

All signal connections are 5-pin DMX, and all power connections are 15A Round Pin.

 

For an upcoming productuion of Little Voice, I am planning to supplement this with a couple of Moving head fancy lights with colour changers and gobo changers, and also some LED colour changing Floods / PARs.

 

I know connecting signal and power, and controlling these new fixtures is completely different, and I anticipate needing to keep the 2 systems completely independent.

 

Can Anyone advise exactly what I need ?

I anticipate powering the new fixtures directly from a nearby 13A mains socket, and daisy-chaning the power with kettle leads. Is this correct/safe/normal? Overload risk ?

I anticipate controlling them with a 2nd desk (192 channel DMX controller?) using 3-Pin DMX cables, daisy chaining the fixtures. Is this normal.

 

I know almost nothing of these fixtures, and have never seen one up close. Any thoughts welcome.

 

cheers, Zulu

 

PS, Initially I plan to buy a controller (£300 ?), and hire fixtures.

[Aaron-Hill07]

Okay, I'm suprised you've actually needed to ask further questions as I'm sure this has been covered pretty closely before on the forum.

 

Anyway you look at it, you are best off hiring in everything you need. Don't buy anything as with your budget, you'll only get a load of rubbish.

 

You will need to hire your moving lights, your LED bits and whatever else you want. You will also want to hire yourself a desk to control it with. You can use one desk to control the lights, just link out of the demux unit and into your intelligent fixtures.

 

Dependant on the desk you use, you'll have to setup your lights on the desk. What lights are you planning on using in terms of moving heads?

 

You can of course power them from a 13a socket, but it depends on what lights they are. Obviously one 13a socket can only take just over 3000w at 240v so as long as their consumption isn't over that, you'll be fine to link out of one 4-way.

 

In terms of signal, yes you can daisy chain them through eachother; that's absolutely fine.

 

Your best bet may be to PM me through the forum for better help and to be a bit more specific.

 

Thanks,

Aaron

[pete LD]

Surely Aaron your best bet is to have all conversations on the thread so other users can offer advice and other people in the feture can benefit from your invaluable advice?

[Just Some Bloke]

Firstly, please do remember that there are lots of members of the Blue Room who are over 18 and very experienced who'd be happy to help you.

 

Secondly, let's take each of your points:

 

 

For an upcoming productuion of Little Voice, I am planning to supplement this with a couple of Moving head fancy lights with colour changers and gobo changers, and also some LED colour changing Floods / PARs. Why? I'm not saying you're wrong to do so, but it would be interesting to know what you're trying to achieve.

 

I know connecting signal and power, and controlling these new fixtures is completely different, and I anticipate needing to keep the 2 systems completely independent. Well you certainly don't need to keep the systems separate as you could hire in a bigger lighting board and use it to control all your kit. This means you only have one "go" button, but also means you're using a whole new board for every single cue so it may be a steep learning curve. You may prefer to use your own board for generics (i.e. non-movers/LEDs) and another for the rest. Your choice.

 

Can Anyone advise exactly what I need ?

I anticipate powering the new fixtures directly from a nearby 13A mains socket, and daisy-chaning the power with kettle leads. Is this correct/safe/normal? Overload risk ? I would look at daisy-chaining the LED fixtures but then running a second feed from another 13A socket to your first moving head then splitting the power and running out to the second.

 

I anticipate controlling them with a 2nd desk (192 channel DMX controller?) using 3-Pin DMX cables, daisy chaining the fixtures. Is this normal. Daisy-chaining the DMX is not only normal but also the right way to do it! Your controller needs to not just have lots of channels but also be suitable for running moving heads. You will need to be able to tell the controller what movers you're using and have it give you the pan, tilt, gobo, focus etc. channels in sensible places rather than having to use faders to control each channel - it can be done on faders but is MUCH harder that way.

 

I know almost nothing of these fixtures, and have never seen one up close. Any thoughts welcome. Make sure you hire the kit for long enough to give you LOADS of time to practice plotting with them. A local school recently hired in some moving heads for a production in their school hall, then spent so long trying to patch them and understand how the desk worked that they ran out of time and ended up not using them but still having to pay the £200 hire bill. Don't do the same!

 

cheers, Zulu

 

PS, Initially I plan to buy a controller (£300 ?), and hire fixtures. You may well get a good deal from a hire company to supply everything and help you set them up. Might be better until you're used to using the kit.

 

You could well have a great time here playing around to see what works. You could also have a horrible time when nothing does what you want it to do and it all gets very stressy vey quickly. The difference is in the timing. Give yourself loads of time to set it all up and have a play before you have to start plotting. It will take longer to plot when you're using equipment you're not used to. As long as you accept this and plan it into the scedule then all will be well. Have fun!

[norty303]

I can only reiterate the importance of a good desk for movers.

You mention 192 channels earlier which immediately conjures up images of those Chauvet/Soundlab/Stairville clone DJ controllers with faders and 'head' buttons.

 

Whilst it is possible to control movers with something like this, for an inexperienced operator, you may well prefer to poke your eyes out with a spoon. Especially if the mover has a lot of channels.

 

If I were going to spend any money on a desk to buy, I'd have to go with something like a cheap computer, Chamsys MagicQ and a MagicDMX(full)/Enttec Pro interface. £300 just doesn't get you very much in hardware terms, but can get you quite a bit in the computer control market.

[peza2010]

If you do a search right here on the blue room you will find a website created by a blue room member, that allows you to hire other blue room members magic q hardware for what is a very small amount of cash. Magic q is good, but not without hardware. But wIth that said, you should be able to work out a good deal with a hire company for providing everything.

[norty303]

Magic q is good, but not without hardware.

 

I would say it depends on what you are doing with it. For a busked show then I would agree with the need for some sort of 'interface' (even just a touchscreen) but for a show that may just need repeat 'Go' presses I would say a wing is not necessary (nice, but not necessary ;) )

[mark_s]

Magic q is good, but not without hardware.

 

Bull. I've now used MagicQ twice in a live situation on a fairly important show, with nothing more than a PC and Artnet node. I didn't find it particularly troublesome not having a physical interface, apart from the lack of encoders. While the show was mostly programmed, there was some amount of busking involved. I never once had a real problem.

 

Perhaps it's just a case of how you set your desk up, and whether you do the initial legwork like creating useful palettes and making sure that playbacks are laid out sensibly? :)

[peza2010]

My exact point was the fact of no encoders... Programming anything more inventive than clicking "add fx" with a lot of moves in it is a PITA in my opinion.

 

If you did okay with it then great, but don't go telling me my programming is bad.

[Zulu]

Some great info here, guys.

With this thread, some other reading, and a visit to the high-end hire company in Manchester, I feel a lot wiser.

The controller seems to be the main thing, the advice being "don't buy rubbish". I'm certainly planning to hire in the first instance.

 

apart from the lack of encoders

 

Encoders ? is this some kind of interface hardware, Computer - DMX ?

We have a decent laptop.

 

In terms of programming a Show, I anticipate almost everything being pre-programmed ( a string of programmed scenes ), although using a moving head as a follow spot would be extremely useful.

 

thanks, Dave

[peza2010]

Encoders are basically wheels for controlling attributes.

Pan,tilt,colour wheel etc etc.... Are all controlled (usually) by encoders.

 

You can do this on lighting software, but it becomes a pain in the backside, because you only have mouse control, rather than a wheel.

 

 

Re using a moving head as a follow spot... I wouldn't bother! It's not gonna happen. For 1 thing most moving heads won't be anywhere near bright enough to get the effect your after and trying to follow and actor around a stage with just pan and tilt is near on impossible.

[Just Some Bloke]

Indeed. We've talking about moving heads as followspots a few times on here and the answer is always the same: don't do it!

 

If you've blocked someone to move from point A to point B at a very particular pace then you can jus about get away with following this with a moving head, but the start and end points must both be precise, the timing must always be the same and the route must be a perfect straight line. Any deviation from this, and certainly any idea of the actor having any ability to chose for themselves when or where they go, and you're stuffed!