ceecrb1 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Just having a think about an upcoming job, wondering what people make of my thoughts.. The setup will be this.. normally I do PA sound for the local fashion week, this time as my ob truck is going, I'll be doing the sound in there (and crew/truck chief)my thoughts are about the ambient pickup mics for audience applause etc.truck output will be a l & r stereo mix to the sat truck, but also digi beta vtrs in the truck where I can record on all 4 channels as I choose for later editing... So mics location (as always, dictated by client, not by techs...) will be at the top of the graded seating, behind the audience..... face on to the PA. I will be using a stereo pair (for a nicer stereo sound....) rather than mics on cameras as others have done in the past.... Now, If I keep these mics in normal phase, they will, when I mix them in, phase with the dj/sound techs feed... and give me phase/flange effects.. (they like the pa LOUD) If I invert the mic's phase they will effectively cancel out the clean mix (or at least a large chunk, the mics wont pick up all frequencies like the clean feed by any standard... but enough to notice cancelation..)I know this is not a perfect system, so cancelation/phasing will not be too strong, but I'd rather be prepared for the worst! So... what to do, what to do.I'm thinking I might just have to narrow down the applause sound with some eqing.. the shame is that there will be no rehersing this one, needs the audience (or a few voulanteers) to test it... might need to go into this one "blind" and just see what works out! I have not decided on the mics yet... need to check up on what we have in the sound recording studios (far more options) as we only have 2 sm81's in our hires dept.... I am almost toying with the idea of mixing the dj plus inverted mics to an aux, giving me (in effect) the audience with pa canceled out, then returning that aux to main mix.... Truck's desk is an 02rv96, so I have enough control/options for these kinds of options.. This time we are not lighting or doing pa, so I cant make use of any other dept, I have to assume I have nothing other than L&R from the dj/tech with no ability to hang mics etc. comments, ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackerr Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 The mic polarity will have little or no effect on how much of the PA gets recorded. Ideally you would have the audience reaction mics near the PA pointed at the audience. This would mean that the PA recorded through the mics is very close in time to the direct recording, making them disappear in the mix until there is applause. If you are force to put them at the other end of the room than all your other mics you will need to record them isolated so you can go back in post and either slide them back in time to match the PA in a DAW, or delay the direct recording to match the reaction mics. I would try to get the mics near the PA. Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceecrb1 Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 100% agree about positioning, this just one of those cases where clothing designers want appearance over functionality.. so that is "the only place they can go"Its why it has me scratching my head a little, an un-used technique... (probably for many many good reasons) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Frankly, using a couple of SDC mics, you can usually tuck them in somewhere so the designers don't even know they're there. Even behind a curtain (if it was relatively thin) would probably work okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Pearce Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I'd get a couple of lav mics and hide them on a speaker stand/stage edge/ on the lighting truss. Got to be better than behind the crowd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteshepherd Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 yep, reposition the mics and have the argument if you need to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameskerr87 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Failing repositioning the mics, you could measure the distance from your mics to your PA and delay the input of you L +R appropriately, or shift it in time in post production?? Remember that the people at the back of the crowd are much more likely to be chatting away about all sorts, so make sure your audience mics are not too close to anyone slagging the artist/production off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I think you'll have next to no chance of getting any significant amount of cancellation with the mics at the back of the room. Depending on the size / type of the room, you'll likely be in to the reverberant field so there'll be very little correlation between what comes out of the PA and what the mics pick up. I'd second the suggestion of putting your mics where the client wants them, just for show, but not connecting them and sneaking a couple of miniatures in somewhere more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Shez and his DFA mics with Jonathons hide them on/in the truss is the way I would go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceecrb1 Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 I think you'll have next to no chance of getting any significant amount of cancellation with the mics at the back of the room. Depending on the size / type of the room, you'll likely be in to the reverberant field so there'll be very little correlation between what comes out of the PA and what the mics pick up. I'd second the suggestion of putting your mics where the client wants them, just for show, but not connecting them and sneaking a couple of miniatures in somewhere more appropriate. genius! now off to the recording studios to see what is there! some boundaries or something can always be hidden. or I have my own wired lavaliers.... ta muchly all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.