Digital Mixing Desk

[Gwion]

Now, I'm sorry if this thread might annoy a lot of you, but here we go!

 

I have searched the forum for people's suggestions, but, as this is a market that evolves all the time, I guess there will be new products out there all the time.

 

I also understand that all people have their preferences, but I could do with some pointers.

 

As a venue we are looking at getting a digital desk.

 

We are a multi purpose venue, and the desk would be used mostly for

1 School and community productions where the digital recall for mixes would be a huge benefit over a number of performances, and we would save on the space we currently lose in the auditorium with desk and outboard etc.

2 bands and 'Battle of the Bands' and multi band setups

3 some theatre and dance productions.

 

I'd be looking for a 32 channel desk with a stage box over ethernet.

There's also a strong possibility that 12 of the 32 channels would be radio mics

 

So!

Soundcraft, Yamaka, Mackie.

 

What?

 

Any suggestions would be fantastic.

 

Thank you

Gwion

[smalljoshua]

There have been a couple of topics about digital desks lately, your situation would fit an Allen & Heath iLive quite well, they're flexible and have a stage box that connects to the surface over ethernet. You don't say what your budget is but because the iLive system is modular, you could go for a T80 Surface with an IDR32 or you could go for a T112 surface with the IDR32 for more faders on each layer.

 

Josh

[Andrew B.]

Yamaha LS9/32 has worked well for us in a busy church setting, with a mix of skilled and less skilled operators, for the past 5 years. In that time we have also used it for school productions and professional concerts. We use the Aviom monitoring system (CAT5 from the desk to the stage carrying 16 channels of audio to individual mini-mixers for each performer) however we don't use an ethernet snake for the mic preamps so I can't comment on that part. Reliability has been 100%, flexibility in routing is a huge bonus, as is the onboard dynamics, EQ and FX. We also like the ability to create different levels of user privilege, with passwords, so that the less experienced users can't change some fundamental settings (eg routing and speaker delays) by accident.

 

We also tried the M7CL before we went with the LS9. Although the touch screen interface was faster to use, we didn't feel we needed it in our context and could spend the money elsewhere more usefully.

 

Sound quality is fine - at least on a par with our old A&H GL series desk.

 

Andrew

[whisky-zulu]

Having used both Yamaha and Soundcraft digital consoles in the applications you describe, I would honestly say that I would take a Soundcraft Si series over an Ls9 or M7Cl anyday; add to that Soundcraft's Aviom and Madi card options and you have a very flexible console with very few restrictions in terms of processing power - Geqa and Peqs for all outputs, 4 lexicon FX engines, 8 insert points for external processing...the list goes on. The Si doesn't rely on a screen for all of itd menu options either.

[JamieG]

Hi Gwion

 

Firstly let me say well done for asking the question. The whole issue of digital desks and which one to buy is massive. And when all is said and done, the issue I guess you're facing is one of budget. I could write a whole load of fairly meaningless words and spec's here about the benefits of each desk over the other for all different reasons. I have used all the Yamaha's from the LS9 to the PM5D. I've used the Midas's, the Soundcrafts and the Digidesigns. I've also used the Roland's and the Mackie. I've even used and installed the Presonus desks. Which, I have to say, are very good for the money.(nice mic pre's).

 

However, my personal favourite right now, right at this moment in time is are the Digico's. I am a bit of a latecomer to the Digico desks. Not because I had anything against them, I just wasn't in any situation where they came on my radar. But that all changed recently. Without going into great detail (because it would take ages) about the for's and against's of the Digico range, I suggest you borrow one for a short period of time and see what the desks capabilities are. How can I do that I hear you ask? Well, I can help. Look, I'll be very upfront and honest from the start. I am looking at this as a sales opportunity. But the benefits of taking me up on my offer of loaning you a desk is, first I (well the company I work for) are one of only three digico dealers in the UK, second, we are not only digico dealers, we have (and hold in stock) most of the desks that have been suggested here. Certainly all the Yamaha's, and the Rolands. I also have access to the Soundcrafts and the Midas consoles but I would imagine, and forgive me if I'm wrong, they would be out of you budget. The third, and very important, reason for taking me up on my offer is, I'm very close to where you are so, if you did buy a desk from me, I would be quickly on hand to lend you a replacement or sort the issue out very quickly.

 

If you want to give me a call my number is 07890 271489. or you can email me at james.gosney@stage-electrics.co.uk I would be very happy to come and meet you and bring a selection of desks with me...say the Yamaha LS9, the Roland M4800 (or M400 which we have some in stock still) and the Digico SD9 and the new 32ch SD11. We can spend some time looking at all the mixers and then you can decide which one suits you best in terms of use and budget. The alternative is, you come over to our demo facility and we can have all the digital desks there for you to evaluate....we are only just over the Bridge...so not that far.

 

Please give me a call and I will sort this out for you. Buying a digital mixer is a huge investment so it makes sense to get it right from the start.

 

I hope this is helpful.

 

James Gosney

 

By the way, what I have just offered Gwion in terms of mixing desk demo's, I can offer to anyone else on this forum within the UK.

 

Cheers

 

James.

 

Okay, just looked properly at the map. You are, Gwion, four hours from where I actually am. However, I would still be more than willing to do the demo's as I suggested. Also we (the company I work for) have staff in your area and hold stock of the products we sell and hire in Liverpool...so no that far after all. J

[cedd]

Can I play a wildcard here and say that if you hold your horses a little, Behringer are launching their X32 (apparently) sometime soon ish. There are topics on here about it and also videos on youtube and the Behringer website.

I'm maybe in the market for a digital desk this year and whilst a used LS9 looks like a good way to go, the X32 has made me stop and listen. We'll only know if it's any good when they come to market, and yes we all know what people have to say about Behringer, but as many others have said, after their recent company takeovers, it might be worth waiting for. Very cheap and with a digital multi for not much money at all.

 

In terms of choice, lots of people have personal opinions. I like the look of the Digico, Digidesign (SC48), Allen and Heath and Yamaha desks (I'd prefer the first 3 though). Personally I really dislike the user interface on the Soundcraft desks, but that's a very personal thing. From my limited fiddlings with them, I found the others far more intuitive (not got my hands on an SC48 yet mind you).

What I'm trying to say is you're going to get a million and one answers asking a question like this.

 

As an aside, scouring the ex-hire pages brings back quite a few desks from Innovason, yet I've never seen or heard of one of their desks in use. What are they like? Why don't they seem as popular?

[Andrew B.]

Interesting to see you pop up here James. You were the one that installed our LS9 when you were working for your previous employer! It was a good choice and a professional installation, so I'd be happy to recommend your services to anyone on the board.

 

Andrew

[stevei]

After using many different desks both analogue and digital, for our end of term show of We Will Rock you I hired in the soundcraft Vi 1. I was aprehensive as I had never used it before but its what was available.

 

I found this to be very intuitive desk to use and not many menus to go through (like many of the others)

 

didnt even need the instruction manual to get going with it. This desk really suprised me and is def worth a look yes still quite expensive but have a look at what you get on board

 

hope that helps

 

Steve

[JamieG]

Interesting to see you pop up here James. You were the one that installed our LS9 when you were working for your previous employer! It was a good choice and a professional installation, so I'd be happy to recommend your services to anyone on the board.

 

Andrew

 

Hi Andrew

 

Well thank you for your kind words of recommendation. I have installed a number of LS9’s in the last couple of years, along with the Roland M400’s. Both are really good little boards for the money.

 

I have recently got quite involved in Digico now and I have to say, they sound amazing. I’ve used and played with most of the boards that are out there and although I’ve not AB’d the Digico’s against anything else, I do remember being quite overcome with excitement when I first started playing with the EQ on the desk, to use a well-worn ‘soundy’ term, very musical…very musical indeed. And that’s the first time a digital desk has caused that reaction in me.

 

I’m glad everything is going well with you guys. Please give me a call or email me if I can be of any help with anything.

Thanks Again.

James.

[tolley1466]

As an aside, scouring the ex-hire pages brings back quite a few desks from Innovason, yet I've never seen or heard of one of their desks in use. What are they like? Why don't they seem as popular?

 

I was talking to an experienced engineer the other day and we were talking about the Innovason desks and apparently they're prone to shut down mid show. Although your mix rack is still running, you can't control anything. I don't think Innovason really took off because of the late developments. I wouldn't touch them. For a start, on whos rider do you see an Innovason desk requested?

[paulears]

Don't forget we're in a country that have audio mixers as one of the things we do quite well - however, we're a very small island, and in mainland Europe, you'll see far more of their products. Looking at the kind of shows they're being used on abroad, then they appear to be VERY rider friendly - over there!

[kerry davies]

As an old friend of Red Square/Midas Prosound/Paul N I have to step in and say Paul has too good a reputation to lose by choosing desks that are unreliable. The Innovason I was shown seemed user-friendly and I am an idiot as far as digital desks go. They have several advantages over Digico who in turn have features that Innovason do not.

See Page Eight of this months TPI.

 

All desks, digital or analogue, have plus points and minus points and there can be no direct like-for-like comparison. Galeri is a premier venue for Wales, and would do well to take time and explore all the options with the long-term in mind. What Jamie offers for Digico is similar to what any main agent/dealership should offer along with some training in the use of the desk so ask around, Gwion.

 

Hwyl fawr and good hunting.

[chris.peachy]

Just my opinion but if your going to try a digital desk find a local rep for the A&H iLive.

 

I love them. After lots of looking and trying our first digital desk was an iLive T112 and IDR48, they do other smaller fixed format systems including R72, T80 with IDR16, IDR32 and IDR64s.

The concept is very user friendly, the sound is great and we have now added them to our hire stock.

[techywhizz]

If you'd like a chance to see and play with a mix of all boards, don't forget about our digital mixer open day.. "digifest"

 

Registration

 

We'll have boards from Yamaha, digico, digidesign (avid), soundcraft, Allen and heath, presonus, Roland and Midas. This is a great chance to play with the boards, and to meet engineers who mix with them..

[andykelly]

I work in a school myself, and whilst the Yamaha LS9 is a very capable desk, out of all the digital desks I've used it's by far the least user friendly. (I've used digidesign profile systems, soundcraft vi6, presonus studiolive and allen and heath ilive too)

I would personally go for the A&H iLive for that application, out of the one's ive used. Digidesign/Soundcraft would be overkill and whilst the studiolive is an awesome little desk their biggest frame is 24channels.

Haven't tried the Roland, Soundcraft SI Compact or Digicos but I think they'd be worth some consideration against an iLive