Direct outs - A&H GL2400

[jbaileypro]

I have been asked to help with a event which is a gig featuring multiple bands. The usual guy who runs FOH and monitors brings in his 80s PA and brings a load of cheap guitar amps as monitors. There has always been complaints about onstage sound for them. I have been able to convince the organiser to allow me to run monitors separately (although this is overkill for the size of the venue) and of course the budget is tight.

 

I will be hiring in the kit and have on the list:

4x 12inch fold-backs for stage

1x 12inch fold-back (for my listening wedge)

1x Allen & Heath GL2400 24 channel mixer (in monitor mode).

 

The only problem is that the hire company that I will hiring off doesn't have anything to split the signal. I have already looked at and used simple passive splits (both from larger consoles with splits in their flight cases using multipin and y splitter cables). I will also have to add the personal cost of buying y splitters if we opt for them. Before going off and doing this though I have thought about the idea of using the direct outs for each channel on the desk to then send to FOH for him to be in his own world.

 

My question is that as the output will be the level after the Allen&Heaths pre-amps, then the the guy who will be running FOH won't have too much control over the level he gets. He also gets quite a bit off feedback thanks to speaker placement and doesn't use any kind of graphic EQ either. He ends up riding the gain quite a lot. Has anyone else run it using direct outs before and had any success?

 

Thanks in advanced,

[Dj Dunc]

From what I remember,the direct outs on the Gl2400 are post gain and post HPF, however this has never been a problem for me doing a split desk. We used this method for splitting at FOH to go to monitors (we would have run it the other way, but couldnt at the time)

[david.elsbury]

http://www.allen-heath.com/webfm_send/982

 

Post-gain, Pre EQ, Pre Fader. You can select and change some options (but as I read the diagram, not the pre/post gain option) via jumper inside the console.

 

The manual says that the direct outs are impedance balanced but from the diagram they look unbalanced to me- might be worth bearing in mind that you could run into problems if you want to run long distances.

[Bobbsy]

From the A&H User Manual:

 

DIRECT OUTPUT Each mono channel direct output is available on

an impedance balanced TRS jack providing a line level signal operating at

0dBu. The source is set using an internal option jumper for each channel.

The factory default setting is pre-fade (following the pre/post-EQ setting).

This may be changed to post-fade if preferred.

 

I agree the diagram is ambiguous but, from past experience, believe this is a simplified diagram and that the direct outs are, indeed, impedance balanced.

 

How much of an issue the levels are will be down to how the operator does his mix. As long as, like me, the gain trims are set to an appropriate level during sound check then NOT TOUCHED during mixing, this is a non issue. However, if you get one of the guys who lines up his faders and does his mix on the trims, then it's an issue. Personally, I have no time for the "neat fader" brigade but, hey, that's just me.

 

So the key is agreeing levels at the start (probably PFL and adjust the gain trim for peaks at 0dBu on the meters) then both ends should be able to mix properly. If you can sort out some form of comms between FOH and Monitorland then even if slight tweaks become necessary these can be accommodated.

 

Bob

[stevefez]

We've used the direct outs in this way. Had no issues while using the same guidlines Bobbsy has suggested. There was one issue when a guitar was changed halfway through a set. But that was resolved quickly, and rather ruthlessly.

 

We were doing a multi channel record of the event, but I can't see how it would be hugely different.

[jbaileypro]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

I will drop an email to A&H regarding the direct outs being balanced or not. They will be run from the mixer to the multicore which is around 30m so it will need to be (although the amount of noise that he gets from his kit wouldn't make much difference, earth hum everywhere as he doesn't understand what using a DI or the use of balanced cable actually does).

 

As I will be hiring the desk then I don't think they would like me snooping around changing jumpers. If they are the default of pre everything except the gain then I will be happy.

 

To be honest I don't know how he runs the desk as it has always seemed a mess to me, that is the only reason why I don't want to upset how he will be running his mix (everyones different).

 

I am treading carefully as I have been able to convince the organiser to try this out and spend some money on hiring in equipment (you guessed it, the normal guy who will be running FOH plays in one of the bands and offers gear + his time for free but is very protective over it). If he is happy and everyone else is then it may end up with a fully hired in system next year.

 

Thanks for the replies everyone.

[jamesperrett]

The only issue may be that the direct outs are line level which the other guy may not be able to handle if his multicore has XLR tails at the mixer end.

 

You've already been given the answer about whether the direct outs are balanced - it might be worth reading up on what impedance balanced actually means and then find out whether the FOH guy's desk will be able to take advantage of this.

 

It sounds like you need to meet with the FOH guy and work out whether your proposals will work rather than hire in a bunch of kit that simply won't be usable without his co-operation. Could you try a different hire company who have more suitable kit in stock?

 

James.