Lighting a set with a roof

[matthew3000]

Hi Guys,

 

I hope this is the right place for this.

 

I am currently designing a lighting design for a local amateur show. It is based in a church hall and the set designer has decided to put a roof on the back half of the set.

 

I am looking for any ideas or advise on the best way to light the back half of the set and cure the lack of backlight as the lighting bars are blocked off by the roof.

 

Any help appreciated,

 

Matt.

[peza2010]

I'm a little confused here.

 

Are you asking how to light up the roof in the set to make it a feature? Or are you asking on ways to light whats going on, on stage because of the roof blocking your hanging lighting bars?

[son of lx dad]

practicals

[GridGirl]

Talk to the designer and try to dissuade him/her...I've worked on a couple of shows where the set has had a roof and on one of them, we moved every profile in the rig three times before finding a solution which sort of worked; the second one had further complications that the back wall of the set was a rear-projection screen and so any frontlight coming in flat enough to get under the roof spilled all over the screen and washed the projections out. It was not a happy production week.

 

Essentially, the only way we were able to make it work was to use carefully-shuttered and focused profiles coming in as steeply as we could (but it still wasn't very steep) and a lot of trial and error. The second episode wound up with the director having to shift the action as far downstage as possible as we simply couldn't light the set right upstage. Backlight is also very tricky; can you persuade the designer to put a gap between the roof and the back wall, so that you can poke some backlight through there?

[smalljoshua]

I've seen it done with a lot on black birdies, this was on fiddler on the roof for Teve's cabin. A large number on backlight, standard side lights through the windows, a little flat front from the balcony and most of the front from a half dozen birdies on the "guttering" disguised mainly as hooks and similar (the LD was also the Set Designer)

 

Josh

[jonathanhill]

Can you get any sidelight in? I would get as many booms in as possible and probably bung a load of profiles up and use then in lieu of backlight.

[gareth]

This is what lighting design is about. If the set design makes it impossible to get any backlight into an area, you have to come up with a way of lighting it without any backlight - that's your job! Asking the set designer to make a major compromise like removing an entire ceiling just becase you fancy a bit of backlight is a cop-out of the highest order!

 

Study the drawings (plan and section) carefully, work out from where you *can* get light into that part of the stage, then think about where you can hide small units like birdies or Minuette fresnels - perhaps behind a cornice on the DS edge of the ceiling, if there is one? Or if there is but it isn't deep enough, perhaps negotiate some small holes in the ceiling, hidden behind the cornice, above which you can mount your fixtures.

 

Practicals are also a good bet. The show that's in our studio space at the moment is playing in-the-round and has a solid 6m square ceiling piece hovering above the entire playing area, with its lowest point less than 3m above the actors' heads - the possibility of getting any light at all from the grid into the playing area was reduced to pretty much zero, and cross-light wasn't an option because it's playing in-the-round. But the lighting designer dealt with what he was given, and lit the show very successfully - primarily with the five practical items that are on the set, plus a window gobo and a couple of fill lights coming in from one corner.

[TomM]

I've worked as a tech on shows where the entire set was a room (with roof) within the theatre, with the audience inside, where the designer lit the show almost exclusively using domestic style MR16 and GU10 fittings built into the roof. Obviosuly this approach only works if it fits with the show to have modern style fittings!

[Andrew C]

Difficult to describe, but can the ceiling be built with a slot in it to allow some lighting through it? If the panels are staggered just right, the audience should see it as a more or less solid piece (within the "suspension of disbelief" theory).

[Ken Coker]

This is what lighting design is about. If the set design makes it impossible to get any backlight into an area, you have to come up with a way of lighting it without any backlight - that's your job! Asking the set designer to make a major compromise like removing an entire ceiling just becase you fancy a bit of backlight is a cop-out of the highest order!

 

 

What, however, would be entirely appropriate is for you to work WITH the set designer and see if there were ways of introducing backlight/toplight within the structure of the set. For example, could there be in the beams in the ceiling which could mask apertures for lighting?; could there be a skylight? Given that you and the designer are part of the scenographic team, it is absolutely correct that there should be a creative dialogue between the pair of you. It is entirely possible that he/she might tell you to bugger off..but that's showbiz and at least you've done your bit.

KC

[kerry davies]

Gareth is right about using hidden small fittings and Ken's skylight is clever, but have you thought about using household/industrial fittings? One way to get light into awkward domestic type settings is to use what would be there in reality and replace the laps with higher output fixtures.

 

Have used bulkhead lights, domestic "drops" and standard lamps to get into awkward corners.

"Got a problem? Make it a feature!"

[maxjones2000]

I would tend to use lots of birdies as someone earlier suggested. You could 'tuck them away' behind beams in the ceiling, put the other side of windows, and possibly even use a few as footlight (put them on the floor downstage)... I also think that the idea of getting the set modified so that you could have at least one LX bar being used from above would be good, although it depends if the set designer is willing to change what he has done!! Hope this helps :)

[LeeStoddart]

I'm not sure we are all reading the problem the same way.

 

From the audience perspective, is the scenic feature a roof (with it's higher edge upstage and its lower edge downstage) or a ceiling (with its higher edge down stage and its lower edge upstage)?

 

If it's a roof it will present a challenge in front lighting actors who are under it but should not present back light issues because there should be plenty space within the roof space to have back light lanterns.

 

If it's a ceiling there shouldn't be a problem with front light (unless its slope is very low or flat) but back light will be more difficult.

 

The ways to address the issue from either perspective is to consider practicals - or lanterns arranged within the set - I'd look at birdies or 500/650w Fresnels - typically Minuettes. You need to talk to the set designer - is it possible to add a (false) beam to the set piece so that lanterns can be secreted within it. Are there any columns which are supposed to support the structure - can you hide a lantern behind that?

 

Otherwise you are looking at windows or doorways in the sides to permit some side lighting. Or I do like the idea of a sky light in the ceiling if that is appropriate to the piece.

[Just Some Bloke]

I went to see a rather good play in the West End last year called Deathtrap which had a beautiful set designed by Rob Howell and magnificently lit by Hugh Vanstone which included an almost complete ceiling. Hugh's method of lighting it was, essentially, "all of the above". There were lots of lovely beams built into the ceiling which had birdies and other tiny lights screwed to them, but which also masked holes in the ceiling for other light to get in, as well as lots of practicals and a small array of downstage side-light (though this was used less than you might have expected) and some low level front light, plus the odd window.

 

Hugh Vanstone proved without a shadow of a boubt that it can be done. As Ken says, work with the set designer, think laterally and you'll get there! Good luck.

[CharlieH]

I went to see a rather good play in the West End last year called Deathtrap which had a beautiful set designed by Rob Howell and magnificently lit by Hugh Vanstone which included an almost complete ceiling. Hugh's method of lighting it was, essentially, "all of the above". There were lots of lovely beams built into the ceiling which had birdies and other tiny lights screwed to them, but which also masked holes in the ceiling for other light to get in, as well as lots of practicals and a small array of downstage side-light (though this was used less than you might have expected) and some low level front light, plus the odd window.

 

Hugh Vanstone proved without a shadow of a boubt that it can be done. As Ken says, work with the set designer, think laterally and you'll get there! Good luck.

I'm unsure if this is relevant or useful, and if it isn't then please ignore me http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

I saw 'An Inspector Calls' last year, and tat had a set with a roof, sloping IIRC with the higher edge US. It was supposed to be a dingy living room, and so they incorporated a domestic light as part of the set, and this supplied most of the illumination, with some slight uplight from birdies mounted on the base of the pros. arch. I don't remember there being any sidelight or backlight however that may be my dodgy memory.

 

I was just wondering if that sort of thing would be possible for a set such as yours? Is it supposed to be set in a building, that you could use a suitable domestic lamp? It won't light anything up very brightly, compared to the rest of the stage, but this may look okay, depending on the style of piece?

 

I hope this helps, but if I have missed anything obvious then please shout at me http://www.blue-room.org.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif

 

Charlie