ramdram Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 rossmck, did you not read the latest on how some dopey person wishes to conduct exams in the future?! (Hyperbole warning btw). It seems she reckons that exams of the future should be a case of press the key on a PC/lappie and do away with the writing thing. It seems Isabel Nisbet, the CEO of Ofqual no less (another quango type outfit?), has concluded (now get this) that children of today can no longer cope with the technical intricacies of paper and the pen. Which means, assuming I am not straying too far into the realms of aforementioned hyperbole, ahem, that those kids not owning lappies must resort to an Etcha'sketch if they wish to become artists...otherwise they can use Photoshop and similar. How long before we see an RA on the use of a pencil or exam paper...think of the potential for paper cuts... We have evidence on this very forum that nippers can't get the hang of writing English in Word or whatever even with a built in spell checker and parser! Is the woman mad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 That's not quite what she said - she said that if writing by hand was not what they'd been doing in a course, then introducing it just for the exam was a barrier to success (I've paraphrased that, but the essential bits are correct). She also said that where the subject had special symbols, like maths, then hand written was still most effective. Much as I tend to see handwriting being phased out - I have NEVER been any good at it. When I was at school, they told me to print, because any attempt to do 'joined up writing' simply meant that no matter how I tried, nobody could read it. I really wish I could have had nice handwriting, but it wasn't meant to be. I can print at a pretty decent speed, but it's pretty horrible, and not that easy to read. Through choice, I have typed everything for years. I really can't see that she's saying anything unpleasant. Technology means we all type. so what's the problem? Mind you - she does have a bit of a hidden agenda, of course. Most exam boards want to do away with the post. They're now scanning exam papers and the people that mark them do them on-line. Removing the scanning process is the next step. If somebody has typed it into the machine one end, then why do we actually need the paper? I'm all for doing away with the writing for any exam where it's not part of the process being studied. Writing will just be one of those skills that fade away because they're not used. People used to knit, people used to do calligraphy - they'd be able to make their own clothes - and in our own world, we used to draw plans by hand. Anyone still got a drawing board and parallel motion at home or work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 It's a little more complicated than that... The present buzzword in education is technology enhanced learning, and there is (obviously) quite a lot to be said for it. TEL includes use of media rich content, self directed learning material and interactive sites, and is already widely used in Schools, Colleges and Universities. Online exams are a progression from paper based multiple choice exams, and if you've sat a C&G paper, you will have probably experienced these tests.In recent years, school's paper based exam scripts have been scanned and sent to examiners for marking. This has led to some parts being missed (c.f. the recent BBC story on students who missed out on their first Uni choice because some work wasn't seen on screen and therefore not marked). If the proposal is for students to type their answers instead of writing them, then I do not see too many problems - except for ensuring a suitably secure screen environment so they don't just alt-tab to Google, and the pressure on the school to have sufficient numbers of PCs all working simultaneously - not a small task!).Even when running OK there can be IT based problems - e.g. music theory based tests can have media streaming problems, exams using established exam software hosted on remote servers can suffer disconnections etc. Where the online testing starts to fall down is when it is used for something other than multiple choice based tests. There are several systems that can test at a deeper than just recall and memory, but these can be difficult and time consuming to write, set up and run. Testing a student's ability to show analysis, synthesis and evaluation isn't easy via PC based exams, and I would not be happy with their use in such situations. Simon edit - Paulears beat me to it...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy jim Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Having been an IT tech in a school for two years, I can say that certain styles of computerised examinations are fantastic, and never cause any issues- because they're basic, not resource hungry, and so will work on the vast majority of stations (providing the station itself is alive). Some, however, are very, very buggy, and caused issues for us every time they were used- one software package even required us to swap out all of the mice around the school to NOT be ones with the back and forward buttons, which if accidentally pressed, would exit out of the test! Brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Robinson Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I've done a few computer based exams: AS computing, Driving Theory Test and a few at University. AS computing involved writing and testing code: it would have been impossible to do that without a computer, but that exam replaced coursework. Oddly, the results were printed off and distributed in a similar way to every other exam paper. Driving Theory Test: Multiple choice, probably more accurate, quicker and cheaper than marking by hand. University tests: Multiple choice, see Driving Theory Test above; otherwise, easily to lose marks because the computer doesn't have the intelligence to read and interpret a script that doesn't conform exactly to what it's expecting as the 'right' answer. Maybe as computers gain artificial intelligence, they may be able to understand paraphrased sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramdram Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Actually, I was commenting on the remark made by rossmck on the SP&G, not the computer stuff per se. Obviously it is useful to have a PC a handy if you are programing... Computers in schools have been around for nearly 3 decades...anyone recall the BBC "B"...the crie de coeur in those days was a "computer in every school". In my day it was a TV for Schools Bx. I was alluding to the fact that nippers these days have evolved their own written language, courtesy of the limited amount of characters allowed per call when texting (not to mention a new verb). The fact that IC Ofqual is concerned that handwriting is becoming outmoded was the point. Although why she did not suggest that it be "re-introduced" in schools is another matter. We shall regret this when the art of writing somehow becomes a quaint custom practised only by those with grey hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossmck Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 My remark was related to SP&G ... I agree that handwriting should not be forgotten but that even in type (be it exams, letters or a forum such of this one) people should take the time to spell correctly. Amazingly I find that I actually start to feel "old" simply because these things annoy me - people who send me text messages that don't resemble English will usually find them ignored. Incredibly I do recall the BBC B and the BBC Master ... maybe I am old ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I'm not too worried about the computers - but I do wonder if people make assumptions that computers work for everyone. Instead of meetings in hotels and nice places, this year we've moved to on-line meetings where there's a push to talk button, and all documents videos and audio files are provided on-line. If we want to speak we can push the 'hand-up' button, we can pop-out to visit the loo - and so far, results have been simply awful. Just getting people to make their computers accept microphones and set a few levels is beyond them - frequently people hit the talk button and the entire system goes into quarry mode where huge delays go on and on and on. One poor person pressed play and Elton John burst out of everyone's computers and she couldn't stop it. I myself got on fine, but many people just couldn't cope with the technology whatsoever. I wonder how these people would do on a computerised exam - probably be the other way around. Removing the handwriting would seriously compromise their marks. The computer literate with difficult to read handwriting (like me) would benefit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Most of the online exam environments I've seen are glorified multiple choice / fill in the blank / label the diagram type systems. Some offer drag and drop etc., but are still relatively basic. Although it is not impossible to test higher level cognitive skills, the real benefit of online exams is getting the computer to mark the script and saving the examiner hours of repetitive work. In reality, there are hours of repetitive work setting up the questions, but this can be done over time, whereas most exam marking is typically done against deadlines. Using a PC just to enter text isn't an advantage to me - unless handwriting is a real problem (in which case a student would probably have a support plan that allows use of a PC anyway). Where online assessment falls apart is when you need to test deeper levels of cognitive understanding, and not just the regurgitation of facts. I rather like the question seen at one exam, "what is a tsunami?". Of course, the student could give a one sentence answer (and get perhaps one or two marks) but the examiner expected several pages of carefully argued and reasoned description, analysis and examples. Apart from the benefit of having it typed in, no computer system is going to mark that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Using computers for exams would be good for the examiners and bad for schools and students I suspect As an examiner I mark papers online that have been scanned in - given the poor quality of that scanning process I would appreciate answers having been typed in the first place. It is amazing how many students don't write in black ink although they are told so many times they should - it makes such a difference to the quality on screen which is ropey at best. Most exams, I hope, will remain expert marked and not become automated. At the moment however, exams computer based would cripple schools logistically. We have 130 students in year 12, they all sit general studies. We have 112 computer terminals (theoretically - given they rarely all work simultaneously). Given there are often GCSE, AS and A2 exams at the same time we might have to provide upwards of 300 terminals at the same time - this isn't going to happen. The summer exam season also stretches over a month so it would be a massive detriment to other students in the school who would loose their I.T. access for that time. For a lot of students they would also produce less work I suspect - most of my A-Level classes seem to write faster than they type (evidently this could be addressed with suitable training). A couple of exam boards are looking at optical readers for handwriting which could be interesting but until accuracy is somewhere close to 100% I can't imagine it taking root. You would be amazed at the SP&G in A-level exam answers and what we are directed by the exam board to accept. You can write your exam in "text-speak" or even phonetically and as an examiner I would still have to award you the majority of the marks - very few been reserved for SP&G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramdram Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Well,seeing as the topic has been changed by mutual consent... How times change, ** laughs out loud **. When I sat Os, some 45rs ago and As not long after, it was stressed that if the examiner can't read your paper (s)he can't mark it. That included correct spelling and grammar and legibility. I recall your workings had be shown so at least you could gain some marks for "process" even if your arithmetic was a bit duff. English Lit had to be legible or your proto Pullitzer would go un-remarked and certainly unmarked. The point of all this was to emphasise that if you could not communicate correctly then you would not "be able to get on in life". Although it must be said that a certain "blurring" of the facts could be very useful when filling out the daily CR log as to why Bush did not receive the expected program. We found, acting on advice from Bush, that the perfect culprits were always BT Trunks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wol Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 AS computing involved writing and testing code: it would have been impossible to do that without a computer, but that exam replaced coursework. Oddly, the results were printed off and distributed in a similar way to every other exam paper. Even at Uni, all of our "sit down" exams were on paper, even writing code in various languages. Writing code is definitely possible without a computer as the people who mark it aren't (shouldn't be) looking for character perfect syntax, which a compiler will be looking for. Of course, for the main courseworks where you've got weeks to write them, you have online submission tools where you upload a zip file, and it extracts it, and builds it and emails you the compilation output, but for anything where its in an exam situation, you can just write it out. Admittedly, it would be a fair bit easier with a computer to type as coding requires a lot of symbols, and odd characters. Writing words is fast, but when you're having to write other symbols like ()::,;:?& amongst it all, it does slow it down a bit. When you then realise you want to stick an if statement a few lines above, then inserting text gets a bit tricky on paper! So for AS computing, you didn't do any coursework? What on earth did you do in the lessons?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Robinson Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 AS computing involved writing and testing code: it would have been impossible to do that without a computer, but that exam replaced coursework. Oddly, the results were printed off and distributed in a similar way to every other exam paper. <snip> So for AS computing, you didn't do any coursework? What on earth did you do in the lessons?! We learnt how to code (in Pascal of all languages) and the theory that we needed for the exams. It was a kind of coursework- we were given the skeleton program that we were going to work on a little in advance, but nothing else (such as an idea of the questions, other than what was missing from the code). E2A: Most of our university exams are written (as is coursework- lab reports, etc), it's a minority that are computer based, such as a maths diagnostic test and a 'C' test (not coursework). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.Colwill Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Whilst at Leeds University (2 years ago) the vast majority of my exams were paper based. There were some in-class test's that were computer based multiple choice, but anything that was more than 1% of my grade was paper based. Evan card multiple choices where you strike-through to mark your answer (that I assume were fed into a machine.) Maybe the reason behind this is that there was a four to six week block where the whole university sat exams, and times where nearly all of the 24 lecture theatres of the Rodger Stevens building had exams in them as well as the 3 sports halls. At a University with over 30,000 students, supplying enough computer terminals and space for them all would be a challenge. This said, I could see advantages in typing answers. My handwriting is shoddy at best and having my answers legible would be a big bonus, that and I would be able to cut out the big section of text that went wrong, or was in the wrong place instead of having to strike through it all. But then this would take away from essay answers that required you to set out and state your answer in an essay or report format touching an all the relevant sections with coherent answers and arguments. Being able to cut and paste your sections and insert more text would turn an essay exam into a timed piece of coursework. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Computers in schools have been around for nearly 3 decades...anyone recall the BBC "B"...the crie de coeur in those days was a "computer in every school". In my day it was a TV for Schools Bx. Our first were a brace of Commodore PETs in 1980. I well remember attending a training day when the first BBC Model As were on show and none of them worked. The lecturer was reduced to telling us what would have been happening if they were functioning. Most interesting was around the same period when we were given a demonstration of the Phillips Video Disc which started out as I think a 12 inch disc and turned within a few years into the CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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