jameskerr87 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Hi, I am a FOH operator in a 2000 capacity venue, we have D&B C4 Tops, 6 per side plus 8 Funktion One 218's (4 Per side). I am struggling in my mix position, which is situated on a balcony. The venue as a whole sounds great but the monitors are ruining the mix at the FOH position. With loud vocal monitors on stage there is a huge amount of energy at 250hz focused at me. So I tend to strut off down to monitor world and pull the offending frequency out of the monitors but by the time I get it down to a reasonable level for me the monitors are sounding crap and complaints start coming from the artists. It really is only an audible problem for me at the FOH position and is the only place this occurs, but it affects my whole mix leaving my vocal mix out front too thin. There is no acoustic treatment in the room, metal roof (about 5 foot from my head) that slopes off behind me. It is a great big metal shed!! There is no budget for acoustic treatment, which is what I believe the venue would benefit from so I suppose my question is what else can I do (bearing in mind I cannot move the FOH position either) Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Use Studio Manager in a more appropriate location to get the spectral balance right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceecrb1 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 yeah if the desk is yamaha, studio manager and get down to the stage.. if not.. there is no reason why, in a day nothing is going on you cant physically take the desk too the stage and run some XLR's back up to the patch point or wherever back into the amps... it really would be best to have the control and hear at the same location. also.. free but not best option:You might just need to "learn" the sound of your space from your desk.Dont try to mix to perfection, but take that 250hz into account when you hear it.. train your ears to know that it should be there... in theory you just need to confirm that the extra energy is just coming from these monitors.I´ve had to do this for a horrible press conference room I work in lots, I arrived to it with the speakers installed BEHIND a drywall.. I´m not kidding. The whole room has an "ambient howl" that tricks you into thinking there is feedback, when there isnt.. its just the plasterboards vibrating.. its horrible.. but the FREE fix I had, train myself to get used to it and mix with respect to it.. been trying to get the client to drum up just a measely 200€ to pay me to re-hang the speakers and add a few meters more of speaker cable,, but they are so hard up that they cant even afford that! Also. Is there any reason why you cant install some monitors for yourself at FOH... spend a while trying to EQ them light the main system (as best you can... quite hard to do..) then just mix with those as reference... dropping their levels every so often to check all is ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jameskerr87 Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Thanks, I've been mixing 6 days a week in there for over a year and I am quite used to how mix should sound in FOH I use my headphones as a mix balance reference, The bigger issue is the level of spill from stage, on loud passages it'll add over 10dBA to my readings, for instance I was techin a show yesterday, nice and quiet, band all on ears and I was mixing to about 87dBA (Slow), but then when 4 cast singers are belting, I can turn off FOH and still be getting 100dBA at FOH. My management are quiet strict on levels and this is where we are falling short and its on me if I compensate and mix over the stage volume. I can also understand why they need there monitors so loud, some songs are very delicate and quiet so during their line check the make sure they can hear themselfs comfortably at their lowest singing level. Is compression on vocals in monitors ever used? I cant say I have seen too much about it. Although Studio Manager is great, the shows I operate tend to have alot of hands on mixing not something I could really do on my laptop, I prefer mixing on the board anyway. P.S how did you know I was on an M7 James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Is compression on vocals in monitors ever used?Typically not, as compression can aggrevate feedback when levels are up there. But limiting is often used, usually to protect kit, but you could certainly limit the vocal level to reduce your problem. But do it with an inserted compressor set to limit, rather than on the "proper" limiters, if fitted. The vocalists might not like the compression though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilflet Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 . Is compression on vocals in monitors ever used? I cant say I have seen too much about it. . P.S how did you know I was on an M7 James Yes it is, all though your weighing it against the singer having less idea how loud they are singing, so if they're futher from the mic than normal they cant hear it and you get yourself problems out front.Seeing as you have separate monitor board, presumably with an engineer side of stage?, he could just earn his money a bit more- keep an eye on the band members, and when they get quiet/look uncomfortable push it up to suit- that way you wont overpower any more than is needed on the louder parts. As for the M7- I'd guess they read your profile. thinking a bit laterally: how big is the problem area? is it small enough that just swapping with the lampy gets you out of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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