Totem's LED juggling balls

[WiLL]

I went to see 'Totem' last week, Cirque du Soleil's new show at the Albert Hall. Worth a trip I have to say. One bit had me intrigued which featured juggling balls which were studded/embedded with colour changing LEDS. Obviously these had to contain their own power source but they also seemed to have colour chases which were cued at specific times during the act, so is it possible to wireless DMX something as small as a juggling ball now? And to maintain the signal even while the ball is whizzing around?

I was impressed and I could at least manage a guess at how it worked, judging from the oohs and aahs from the theatre laymen behind me the average audience member must have thought it was magic.

So, wireless DMX to each ball, or more likely a timed chase and a carefully rehearsed act?

[mac.calder]

So, wireless DMX to each ball, or more likely a timed chase and a carefully rehearsed act?

 

I have worked with a couple of juggle-bois with USB programmable balls. The more advanced system I saw had an RF triggering system, the juggler would use a conductive object to short out two contacts on one of the balls, which would trigger any other device within about a meter of the triggered ball, starting the sequence. Other systems had a 1m delay or something of the sort, and would be triggered just before the juggler entered then unplugged from the PC. That said, with Cirque it could be anything. It could use a combination of inertial sensors combined with a program, or they may have made their own control system. It would not be too hard to devise a basic RF protocol for controlling up to (for example) 20 devices with basic RGB control (8 bit control would probably be unnecessary).. WDMX would be a bit of overkill methinks.

[AndyJones]

These Guys do a similar thing. Also very good

[Damian Jay]

Hi All

 

Just thought I'd post a link to a fantastic company where you can buy all the glow / colour changing juggleing equipment :-) HERE

 

Regards

 

Damian

[tom_the_LD]

It was wireless DMX controlling those balls. We had a chat with the head of lighting afterwards and asked the same question.

 

The show is also run off an MA2 with about 320 lighting cues on one playback, about 80 video cues on another playback and then a third specials stack - if you're interested.

[ImagineerTom]

are you sure?

 

Wireless DMX is about the most impractical, un-reliable, un-stable and expensive way of doing it, especially when there's quite a few proprietry. programmable colour changing juggling ball/club/ring systems out there that have many years of proven, reliable service and at a fraction of the cost of wireless DMX. At a push there might have been some sort of DMX based trigger to start the sequence but no more.

 

 

[timsabre]

Wireless DMX is about the most impractical, un-reliable, un-stable and expensive way of doing it, especially when there's quite a few proprietry. programmable colour changing juggling ball/club/ring systems out there that have many years of proven, reliable service and at a fraction of the cost of wireless DMX.

 

I'm not sure about this - maybe if you tried to use off the shelf products, but it wouldn't be hard to do as a bespoke job - you can buy Wifi modules the size of an SD card at relatively low cost now, just add a processor with ethernet capability.

[ImagineerTom]

//sigh//

 

I don't doubt that it is possible but just think for a moment. You've got to design a complete electronics system that combines wifi, DMX, RGB led control, power/charging, make the whole thing completely stable in a very harsh performance environment, make all the constituent parts completely shock-proof (juggling balls take dozens of impacts per min and regularly get dropped) and then physically arrange all this into a juggling ball without compromising the weight or balance a juggling ball needs (quite a tight set of tolerances here) as well as creating some sort of power supply / charging station for it all.

 

Or for £130 you can buy a complete, off the shelf, absolutely perfect fully tested, completely ready to use product that does it all which is completely standard and (in the event of a failure) could have a completely compatable replacement shipped anywhere in the world within 24 hours.

 

Which do you think is the most likely solution?

 

 

[blackbird]

 

Which do you think is the most likely solution?

 

 

Given this is Cirque with their penchant for frittering away large amounts of money, I'd say it's probably bespoke all the way!

 

 

[WiLL]

 

Which do you think is the most likely solution?

 

 

Given this is Cirque with their penchant for frittering away large amounts of money, I'd say it's probably bespoke all the way!

 

 

Indeed, I've heard of Cirque opting for the custom-built expensive option over the off-the-shelf ooption before so it wouldn't surprise me. Also a perk that wireless DMX gives is freedom to the LD for very specific looks and of course operator judgement over when to fire the cues. Bearing in mind that not everything goes smoothly every performance in circus work an operator can delay a cue to allow a performaer to regain their balance, be given a new ball if one is dropped etc. whereas time and tide wait for no pre-triggered timer.

[tom_the_LD]

Which do you think is the most likely solution?

We got told, by the lighting guy that is touring with the show, told us that it is wireless DMX. So I think Wireless DMX is the most likely solution! With cirque, cost isn't their highest priority. Also - say something goes wrong and the guy drops a ball (which isn't out of the ordinary with the stuff they do), if it's preprogrammed then the sequence might run too late or too early if preprogrammed, whereas with wireless DMX, someone can control exactly when that sequence changes.

 

It's also possible that the transmitter was hidden in the base of the unit the man was stood in (this I don't know for sure and I'm just hazarding an educated guess), so the distance to the balls wouldn't be that far.

 

But essentially, on the Totem tour, it's wireless DMX controlling the balls.

[ImagineerTom]

There's no lighting operator in the world who's psycic enough to be able to read the mind of the juggler and know how many catches he's going to do or which tricks he's going to drop to get the routine back up to time so there's absolutely no benefit in having an LX op in control.

 

The proprietry systems that already exist have telemtry options, user-based queing (there's one set that can count the number of catches, another that has a body-worn trigger to over-ride sequeces, etc) and everything else you keep saying could only have been done with wireless DMX.

 

I don't doubt that the lighting op touring with the show said it was wireless DMX - I too frequently make stuff up for my own amusement when I'm talking with people after the show. Since you would have been speaking with (at best) the on tour operator or reprogrammer rather than anyone who actually designed or spec'd the rig I'd take what they say with a pinch of salt. As I also said it's quite possible that some sort of DMX trigger is used to start the sequence off but trying to blast a wireless DMX signal into moving juggling-balls (stable & reliably enough) would be un-stable, over complicated and less reliable than any of the cheep, exisiting, off the shelf, non DMX systems out there.

 

Regardless of all the above I've checked, the Juggler is Greg Kennedy who's doing a refined version of his existing "light juggling" act (which he's done for many years) so odds on he'll be using his existing kit which is definitly not wireless DMX based and was an "off the shelf" LED system

 

 

[dbuckley]

The clear benfit of wireless to integrate to the juggler's balls is that you can have states which include said balls, so having a cohesive look.

[WiLL]

 

I don't doubt that the lighting op touring with the show said it was wireless DMX - I too frequently make stuff up for my own amusement when I'm talking with people after the show.

 

 

Wow, remind me not to quiz you on how any effects were achieved on your shows then :P

Me, I tend to tell people how it really works since that what they wanted to know.

[andy_s]

The clear benfit of wireless to integrate to the juggler's balls is that you can have states which include said balls, so having a cohesive look.

Can't speak for the Cirque act as I haven't seen it and have no intention of doing so. Their form of circus is not to my personal taste, though it makes a great background for a CSI episode. But the LED juggling troupe on the bill of the show I worked on last week did their entire 5 minute act in total darkness for maximum effect. In fact any ambient light simply diluted the effect. Therefore no cohesion necessary. And though they dropped plenty of clubs in rehearsal, the performance was flawless, so I don't think they are really that bothered about having a fat-fingered technican needing "control" in case they f**k up themselves.

 

I didn't have time to really look into the technology, but there didn't seem to be much of it, so I guess their kit was what ImagineerTom was referring to. Personally, I can't really see any benefit to DMX control other than repeatibility, which for a company like Cirque, doing long-running shows in fixed venues, may be important, but would be far less of a priority to other juggling troupes performing in many and varied circumstances, with widely fluctuating levels of technical supoport. Far better in these circumstances to be as self-sufficient and adaptable as possible.