ladyjayne Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Av isn't really my thing so some help would be appreciated.As a favour to friends of mine I've agreed to install their av system. Quick outline: 1 projector, 3 42'' screens and 6 17'' monitors to be placed around their pub.Inputs, dvd, pc, sky and static stage camera. I'm going to use a 4:2 switcher feeding a 1:6 and 1:4signal amplifier. All connectors are phono so for the short runs am using ready made cable but for the long runs(very awkward shaped pub) I am stumped as to what type of cable to use. Any pointers greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepytom Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 75ohm RG59 is the correct cable for sending video down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas1987 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hmm, its that normal thing of future proofing. On a basic level, you could just run 75ohm coax cable (CPC, Maplins, B&Q) and solder phono plugs on either end (to an extent a lot easier than premade cables, when you need to pull it through walls). However, I'd always say looking at future proofing is important. I'd be inclined to look at using shielded CAT5 cable with a Cat5 to Composite balun at either end. Whilst the balun units aren't too cheap (£44 for a dual output one and you would need one each way for each screen), it does mean in the future if they want to upgrade the signal to high definition, they can swap the composite/cat 5 baluns for HDMI or VGA baluns, and use the existing cabling to run HDMI/VGA feeds. Personally, I'd rather spend a couple of hundred doing that, than have to be ripping open walls to replace cabling a few years later. We run a projector feed off 75ohm coax, and due to the odd nature of the building it goes out of the main bar, round a bit of backroom and back into the bar at another point - probably a good 40 meters, and the signal is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Pratt Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 If you're sure you only need composite video, then any decent 75ohm coax such as RG59 or BBC PSF1/3 will be ok. Bear in mind these cables are relatively thick and heavy and if you're using phono plugs, you'll need good sturdy ones with large cable entry holes, some of the lighter cheaper ones just won't accomodate a 6mm+ diameter cable. Thomas does raise a very valid point about the future though and it may be worth considering either his suggestion of using CAT 5 and baluns, or adding CAT 5 cable alongside your coax for later use, whichever works out more cost effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisualMash Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 The CAT5 (or CAT 6) is a very good suggestion by Thomas. Its a bit of a must for future proofing. As HD systems become more the norm, Lower quality systems will become more noticeably bad looking.A box of CAT 5/6 cable is cheep from electrical wholesalers and with a large variety of CAT5/6 baluns out there it makes it very easy to convert the CAT5/6 to VGA, HDMI, DVI, composite signal. If you wish for good future proofing I recommend running 2 CAT 6 Cables to each point, and run some extras to any positions you possibly want screens in the future. The cable is so cheep compared to labour and the cost of making good after. CAT 5/6 can be used for connection to other devices as well for instance video controllers, Infrared extenders DMX etc so a second cable often comes in handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepytom Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hmm I'm not a big fan of network cable and baluns - it works but its not an elegant solution and the future proofing aspect is only true if you put in 2 runs to everywhere and are only interested in 1080i in the future. Also HD "baluns" are expensive and often have very limited range at 1080i (often as little as 25m) I'd controversially suggest that good quality video cable that has been correctly terminated with BNC ends is actually at least as future proof as Cat5/6. You can run 3g HDSDI (1080p 50fps) for about 50meters down standard (good quality solid core) video cable. Converting this to HDMI at each screen is about the same cost as a cat5/6 hd receiver. HDSDI matrix switching and distribution is no more expensive that Cat5/6 HD matrix switching / distro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Mawer Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 75ohm RG59 is the correct cable for sending video down. What is wrong with RG-6 Also HD "baluns" are expensive and often have very limited range at 1080i (often as little as 25m) I'd controversially suggest that good quality video cable that has been correctly terminated with BNC ends is actually at least as future proof as Cat5/6. You can run 3g HDSDI (1080p 50fps) for about 50meters down standard (good quality solid core) video cable. Converting this to HDMI at each screen is about the same cost as a cat5/6 hd receiver. HDSDI matrix switching and distribution is no more expensive that Cat5/6 HD matrix switching / distro.The latest generation of HD Baluns can achieve distances of 100m at 1080p using UTP cable. The current generation of HD Baluns can reach 70m+ at 1080p with correctly matched shielded cables. Much as I love HD-SDI as a signal, the problem is the cost of converting signals to HD-SDI, and the cost of displays that can handle it or the cost of converting it back to HDMI. The cabling switching and distribution of the signal is as sleepytom suggests around the cost of a good quality CAT 5 distribution system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Bear in mind it's a pub, so won't have a huge budget..... The OP has already mentioned a PC as input, so why bother running coax in? A PC signal down coax (without a seriously expensive scan convertor) will be rubbish. Surely, although not elegant, one or more CAT5 runs with baluns would be best? Although I suppose you could run coax plus CAT5.I have a display running off around 50m of CAT5 with £50 VGA>CAT5 convertors and it works rather well :D The infrastructor was already in, but even starting from scratch it's cheap as chips and easy-peasy to install. Also, is full HD *really* going to be the ONLY way video will be accepted in pubs...... Personally, I seem to be sensing nuts and sledgehammers..... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepytom Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 75ohm RG59 is the correct cable for sending video down. What is wrong with RG-6? Got any links to these longer range UTP senders? Do they need the super expensive Kramer cable to work at these distances? Bear in mind it's a pub' date=' so won't have a huge budget..... The OP has already mentioned a PC as input, so why bother running coax in? A PC signal down coax (without a seriously expensive scan convertor) will be rubbish. Surely, although not elegant, one or more CAT5 runs with baluns would be best? Although I suppose you could run coax plus CAT5.I have a display running off around 50m of CAT5 with £50 VGA>CAT5 convertors and it works rather well :D The infrastructor was already in, but even starting from scratch it's cheap as chips and easy-peasy to install. Also, is full HD *really* going to be the ONLY way video will be accepted in pubs...... [/size']err sorry what? Are you seriously suggesting that because they have a single computer input they should run the whole install on VGA signal? Converting their Sky box, DVD player. and camera to VGA is not going to be cheap. Switching inputs on each of the screens is not what they want either. The cheap way to do it is with composite video (which the OP asked for - she specifically mentions phono connections)it's not very future proof (arguably its not very today proof!) but if you have a load of composite kit, a pub and some punters who want to watch the sport on Sky or see the pub quiz master on the fixed stage camera then composite is absolutely OK. The switching will be dead simple and the cost of install will be as low as it can be. We are talking less than £100 for a 100m of RG59, all the other solutions are many times more expensive, even passive composite baluns and cat6 cable is heading toward £50 per screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Are you seriously suggesting that because they have a single computer input they should run the whole install on VGA signal? Converting their Sky box, DVD player. and camera to VGA is not going to be cheap. Switching inputs on each of the screens is not what they want either. [/size][/color] No no no! I should have made it clearer that I meant TWO or more CAT5s or coax + CAT5... sorry! Yes, see what you mean about the switching now I've re-read the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyjayne Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Thanks to all of you for your input and advice, all the gear has been ordered so here's to hoping that I don't muck it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Mawer Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Got any links to these longer range UTP senders? Do they need the super expensive Kramer cable to work at these distances? - Ans - the longer range devices that use HDBaseT technology do not require specialist cables. Crestron pioneered this technology, but it is now becoming more widely available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepytom Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 interesting... Not actually available though yet? Do you know if this 5Play thing is going to be a real standard so that I could use Kramer Transmitters into extron receivers with a 3rd manufacturers repeaters inline for runs over 100m? One of my main issues with the various UTP solutions is that they are not standardised in any way at all so you have to get all your boxes from one manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Mawer Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 interesting... Not actually available though yet? Do you know if this 5Play thing is going to be a real standard so that I could use Kramer Transmitters into extron receivers with a 3rd manufacturers repeaters inline for runs over 100m? One of my main issues with the various UTP solutions is that they are not standardised in any way at all so you have to get all your boxes from one manufacturer. Good question, and one that I will try and find an answer for. I understand that the Kramer HDBaseT solutions will be available this Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwright2104 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Im looking into installing a similar system into a local pub aswell, I cant find a cheap matrix switcher, id like to use Component video aswell but not sure yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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