Moving Head Spots

[Jamtastic3]

We're missing some details here.....

 

How big is the space including ceiling height?

How big is the stage area?

 

It's clear you've got some of the wrong lighting for the situation - I mean pinspots are great for mirrorballs and mini ACL type effects, not actually lighting people!

 

I'd suggest making it fairly simple....

Create a wash for the front with 4/6/8 LED RGB pars. LED pars already have a fairly tight beam angle so could be used as a cheap profile too

 

Then if needed.....

 

Use 3 or 4 300W narrow beam par 56's. Not exactly a spot light, but not exactly a wash light. Uses filament based lamps so the colour temperature is better for faces than LED pars are . You'll then need a 4 channel DMX dimmer for these that can be plugged into a 13A socket (depending on what else you have on the power ring!)

 

DMX it all up to a small desk (no more than 30 DMX channels needed) and you'll have something to get you started.

[parrothead pete]

The moving heads that I have found are only £9 each.

 

Although they are intended to move CCTV cameras, I don't see any reason why the couldn't be used to move my existing spots.

 

The only cost involved is for the PTZ (pan/tilt/zoom) heads.

 

The Chauvet moving Pinspot 360 that I had looked at will only pan, it doesn't tilt (the zoom function is redundant).

 

This seems to me to be the best option for what I want to achieve.

 

I'm just waiting to receive the full specs before I go ahed and order.

 

I'll let you know how I get on.

 

Cheers,

 

Pete

[mrjammy83]

WWOOOOOOOOOO Now we know you really have got the wrong end of the stick

 

You are instantly over complicating the whole thing with CCTV PAN TILT things. The control you need for this is expensive.

 

 

Having home made stuff above peoples heads will certainly not be ideal.

 

Have a read throught the above posts These guys know what they are doing and your starting off with completly the wrong light for the desired task.

 

Answer some of the queries above also so we can help you further.

 

I honestly think using anything not for its intended purpose in a public environment is a recipe for disaster.

[JDLX]

I concurr with what has already been said pinspots are completely the wrong lamps for this setup the artist will only have to move about 4 inches and they will be out of the light! You would be better getting a pair of LED W cans for picking out the faces and then another pair of RGB cans for colour chases. But washes all the way unless you have a dedicated technician operating the lights (which I doubt!)

[parrothead pete]

OK, now we are getting somewhere, you are actually starting to take an interest.

 

The room is probably 6m x 10m, ceiling 2.4m high.

 

The "stage" area, at one end is probably 2m deep and 4m wide.

 

The pinspots were inherited, and yes, they were originally used for a mirrorball !

 

A small DMX desk would be ideal, how much would you expect to pay for a simple unit ?

 

I like mrjammy83's suggestions.

 

Live music is a new venture for us, I want it to be successful, I don't know much about lighting

 

so I started with the items that I already had to hand (pinspots)

 

but I realise that this is far from ideal- thats why I came to you guys for advice.

 

The more information I can gather and the more tips I can get from your posters, the better the decision I can make.

 

The advice that you people can give is so valuable- it is simply not availble anywhere else (not to someone like me, anyway).

 

I look forward to your suggestions.

 

Cheers,

 

Pete.

[paulears]

I suppose it boils down to you making decisions based on 'best guess', and probably choosing the wrong kit, or maybe asking somebody local who knows (and the best source could be your local college if they have a performing arts department - who might love it as a project, or maybe the local amateur dramatics group.

 

Your problem is you're trying to learn something that needs a bit of experience, and it's not an easy subject. Actually, it's amazingly easy to get wrong. You just want lights.

 

A controller likethis, for us is extremely basic, and dirt cheap (at £100 or so), but for you could have too many features you'll ignore. However, the very, very cheap DMX controls won't function simply on any form of slightly clever equipment - and you wouldn't realise it.

 

Looking at the stages of your size we see, then the real need seems to be twofold. It needs to be brighter than the room to focus attention, and needs to be bright enough the band feel they're playing somewhere a bit bigger.

 

Colours that can change are great - so the cheapish LED PAR style fixtures at 30-50 quid can do the job of three separate units with old fashioned gel on the front. At the simplest, you can have three faders, red, blue and green. The controls let you do this kind of thing. Personally, with such a small stage, any attempt to use anything narrow angle is prone to disaster as musicians are notorious for walking out of the light. If you're running the pub, you don't want to spend all the time they're on pushing buttons - which of course, is exactly how we do it on big stages. If you put up two of these PAR can style fixtures - one each side - it will look colourful and interesting, and pretty bright.

 

There's really no sense in complicating it. If you want to make it look even better (but not really actually do much) then you can buy some pretty interesting LED kit that is designed to be looked at, rather than do anything that useful.

 

So for me, a couple of hundred quid would get you 4 cans and a controller. Install wise, one cable from the control behind the bar, or wherever that goes in a daisy chain fashion to each fixture in turn, and a main feed to each one. That's it really.

 

It's very simple stuff. The only difficult bit is programming the control to work with the individual fixtures. Buy them all from one place and they will probably do it for you if you ask - It's not hard, just confusing because the manuals assume you know what you want to do - which you don't!

 

That particular control can have preset steady states - maybe based on colours? or have a chase at the press of a button where the lights change colour from one to another without you doing anything.

 

It's (for us) a bit souless because we usually get paid for being human, but for small bars/clubs it's fine.

[Ashley R]

OK, now we are getting somewhere, you are actually starting to take an interest.

 

The room is probably 6m x 10m, ceiling 2.4m high.

 

The "stage" area, at one end is probably 2m deep and 4m wide.

 

The pinspots were inherited, and yes, they were originally used for a mirrorball !

 

A small DMX desk would be ideal, how much would you expect to pay for a simple unit ?

 

2.4m for a ceiling is not really all that high... then start rigging LED Par cans from the roof which will drop down 30-40cm and now you are down to a 2m unobstructed ceiling height. And I'm 1.7m tall which is a pretty average height for a 16 year old (well at our school anyway) and there are plenty of people who are much taller than I am.

 

You can expect to pay $100-$300 for a cheap DMX Desk, either something like a Scene setter 48/Eurolight (name escapes me at the moment) or one of these Dj style 192ch things.

 

And as JDLX said unless you have got a dedicated Lighting Tech, definitely go with more wash lighting, Such as RGB LED PAR 64's for colour and possibly either PAR 38's (for cheap and readily available lamps) or PAR 56's with a small 4ch dimmer pack.

 

And Paul in my opinion one of those dedicated LED Desks might be perfect for him as some of them are already pre programed and are just plug and play. (As long you buy compatible LED par cans). Dont know why I dident think of that :)

[parrothead pete]

Will the RGB PAR 64's give a white light, or are they not suitable ?

 

I like the idea of using LED lights rather than incandescant from the point of view of energy usage and heat generated.

 

Should I be using separate white lights ?

 

Can the PAR 38 or PAR 56's be controlled through the DMX desk ?

 

Pete

[GridGirl]

Will the RGB PAR 64's give a white light, or are they not suitable ?

 

I like the idea of using LED lights rather than incandescant from the point of view of energy usage and heat generated.

 

Should I be using separate white lights ?

 

Can the PAR 38 or PAR 56's be controlled through the DMX desk ?

 

Pete

 

You won't get a very good white out of the RGB pars, particularly if they're of the "cheap and cheerful" variety! I'd be looking for separate white lights. Par38s and 56s can be controlled from a DMX desk, but you need a dimmer pack - what's sometimes called a "shoebox" dimmer - small (4 channels often) and can run off a 13-amp socket providing you're not drawing too much power - with Par56s usually lamped at 300w, you should be right to run 8 off it without problems.

[mrjammy83]

As I stated before you can now buy Warm white LED Par cans too. which are nice and simple and still energy efficient.

 

Start off by getting in touch with some hire and sales places in your area that deal with this sort of equipment. Most will gladly demo the kit for a few hours or even a whole evening if they were nice.

 

Looking at your website. it looks like a cosy little venue and with limited head hight I would be tempted to use horizontal LED bars on the ceiling Like these To keep your over all head height as sensible as possible.

 

Then 4 or so of these White LED Par 56 Lights to give you all the bright white you would need.

 

Stick a little star cloth behind Such as maybe this

 

And your well away.

 

Due to the smoking ban much of the atmosphere of pub bands has gOne so grab yourself a Hazer to assist in picking out those beams of light and colour and creating a much more intimate affair.

 

Please bare in mind that the above links are the Bottom end of the market kit. but still good for the money. As your new to this realm of things I though it best to keep it as cheap as possible.

Please take note of Thomanns prices though as they are unbeatable most of the time. ( I was quoted £150 each for a 5 DMX channel RGB LED par64 in black by a few local companies. Thomann could do a chrome 7 channel RGB LED par 64 with floor stand yoke for £45) admittedly one of the 8 we bought appeared faulty but they took it back repaired and returned it within a week. Not bad for Uk to Belgium and Back. and a 3 year Warranty cant be bad.

 

OH THIS IS NOT A COMMERCIAL ADD OR ANYTHING. ITS LATE AND I REALLY CBA TO LOOK ELSE WHERE.

[parrothead pete]

Mrjammy83- this is very helpful !

 

When I look at websites, they all list the lights that they sell, but thay all assume that you know what you are looking for

 

and that you know the difference between a PAR 38 and a PAR 56 (which I didn't).

 

Nowhere have I seen a section called "stage lighting for beginners",

 

they all assume that you know exactly what you want to achieve the effect that you are looking for.

 

I didn't want to go straight to a supplier without doing some homework first,

 

I suppose I was worried that they might palm me off with whatever they had in stock,

 

rather than what might be best for the applictaion.

 

At least I now have some idea of what I should be looking for.

 

(I'm impressed that you took the time to look at our website- thank you for that).

 

Thanks again for your advice.

 

Pete

[parrothead pete]

The LED bar looks like a winner.

 

The White LED PAR 56 lamps look great but are expensive,

 

and while I like the idea of LED, I might have to go for incandescant lamps.

 

So, would you recommend PAR 38 or PAR 56 cans ?

 

Bear in mind that they will only be about 3 or 4m from the band,

 

and that I will be using four of them.

 

Bulbs- should I use wide, medium or flood ?

 

Cheers,

 

Pete

[paulears]

Why are we talking about WHITE light - surely in a typical band type pub - we want colour, and if we want colour RGB LEDs are ideal for this - the slightly weird white they give out is not a problem in this application.

 

pete - PARs for historic reasons are linked to 1/8th inch increments of the front glass - so those little ceiling recessed things ar PAR16 (2") PAR 64 (8") and the same system for those in the middle.

 

Beginners here on the BR often 'hatch' in the Next Gen section, but you're in a slightly weird position - you need to select and use kit you're unfamiliar with quickly - we're all coming up with different ideas, and it's up to you to try to work out which is better for you. The trouble is we only think we know what you want. I think my advice is best, but I'm sure all the other people think the same for theirs. None of us is probably wrong - but I think we've all got a slightly different idea in our heads of what we think you want.

 

If you actually could come up with a specification - as in a 'need' for kit that will do X Y but not Z we have parameters to work on. Can you imagine the advice you and perhaps your colleagues would give us if we asked for the best beer to sell? You'd have to ask us questions before you could suggest the most appropriate type - and you would want to know about many things other than beer to do it (at least I guess you would).

 

Somebody mentioned height - and this I hadn't picked up on. The damn things do hang down quite a bit and I can touch a ceiling at 2.4m - so this could be a problem.

 

How about a couple of these? They don't hang down that much and will give you even light, and effects to if you want?

 

Trouble is, you've now got even more to consider?

[parrothead pete]

Right,

 

When I started, all I wanted was white lights to pick out the performers,

 

which would allow me to turn down the house lights to create an"atmosphere".

 

At that stage, I hadn't even considered coloured lights.

 

Now, after our discussions, I can see a need for coloured light, and the LED strip that you identified

 

(the same one that mrjammy picked)seems like a good idea.

 

However, getting back to the white lights (what I in my ignorance would call spotlights, you would probably call profiles)

 

I was told earlier that the white light from the RGB LED cans wasn't very good,

 

that led to the white LED cans, which are very expensive.

 

At the moment, they will only be used for a few hours, once per month, so running costs aren't really an issue,

 

but the heat generated may be- they will be installed very close to the ceiling.

 

Because the room is small, I wonder if the 300w PAR56 cans might be a bit over the top,

 

whereas the PAR38 can be fitted with bulbs in different wattages,

 

but I wouldn't want to go out and buy 4 PAR38's only to find out that they weren't bright enough

 

or to buy 4 PAR56's only to find out that they are too bright !

 

If you think that the white light from the RGB LED can would be bright/white enough then that is still an option,

 

without ever having seen an LED can close up I don't know what the white light quality is like.

 

Someone said earlier, with my lack of experience (zero actually) its almost impossible not to get this wrong !

 

Cheers,

 

Pete

[parrothead pete]

If I went for the PAR56 lights and found them too bright,

 

could I add a dimmer ?

 

Or is this just over complicating things ?

 

Pete