This way to the egress

[Andrew Edwards]

I also walk the exit route at any hotel I stay in!!!

 

It is annoying but not the fault of the signage. It's the venue a) not providing enough staff to stop you and b) making it unusable in normal conditions in the first place. It is a difficult one if you have a final exit which leads to an alley or ar*e end of the venue.

 

Confusion is partially why we changed the signage in the first place. Only having exit or emergency exit on it meant that patrons were not sure if it was a 'means of escape' or not. Not to mention those for which English is not their first language.

As I said running man signs are for means of escape not for general guidance to an exit. Just because it has a running man on it doesn't mean it is a general exit. If the venue has made the decision not to make any given final exit a way out under normal conditions so be it. It would inadvisable to start putting complicated 'if, then' statements all over the place. The amount of confusion this causes during an actual evacuation is so much worse than inconveniencing a few patrons. This is why we save the complicated (yes complicated, remember you have to assume all people are stupid and not like us) instruction until the final exit.

 

Like I and a few others have mentioned. Staff should be there to guide anyway. There are clear ratios of FoH attendants to patrons (for 640 seats this is 4) but it is a good idea to have at least as many attendants as fire exits. This way each one can be assign an exit and this will greatly reduce the evacuation times. They can then guide people to the normal condition exits and away from any emergency only routes. Unfortunately, If you want people to not do something you absolutely have to stand over them. Under no circumstances should there be signs which say 'no exit' or 'no way out' (you still see them about sadly).

 

All but one of the doors leading from our stage and auditorium are crash doors (the one that isn't is right next to the prompt desk). Despite having big signs which say push bar to open, I regularly have to tell people to push the bar. Most people do not read signs anyway. I had to stop someone from using an untested personal item of electrical equipment and they were inches away from the sign telling them not to. Things frequently are hung over signs which said 'do not hang anything from this lighting fixture' on our mirror lights.

 

Even with the old worded signage it still would have likely said emergency exit on all the doors leading from an auditorium anyway. After all if it is a way out of the building it is a means of escape. A door which is simply marked exit which does not eventually lead outside is pretty pointless.

[boswell]

There are clear ratios of FoH attendants to patrons (for 640 seats this is 4)

Is this a local regulation or can you point to an official document?

[Brian]

Is this a local regulation or can you point to an official document?

I'm starting to sound like a stuck record but read your Premises Licence.

[boswell]

I would if I knew where it was!!

[delicolor]

Our LEA has the premises licenses online, after a fashion. When I looked for our Town Hall, the information was somewhat vacuous. Permitted hours for various activities & blank fields for associated capacities.

[Brian]

Our LEA has the premises licenses online, after a fashion. When I looked for our Town Hall, the information was somewhat vacuous. Permitted hours for various activities & blank fields for associated capacities.

That'll be 'Part A' - the 'Premises Licence' or 'Part B' - the 'Premises Licence Summary' then - basically the hours and activities permitted. What you need is 'Annex 2' - 'Conditions consistent with the Operating Schedule'.

 

If I find time I'll scan and PDF one of the ones I have here.

[delicolor]

Our LEA has the premises licenses online, after a fashion. When I looked for our Town Hall, the information was somewhat vacuous. Permitted hours for various activities & blank fields for associated capacities.

That'll be 'Part A' - the 'Premises Licence' or 'Part B' - the 'Premises Licence Summary' then - basically the hours and activities permitted. What you need is 'Annex 2' - 'Conditions consistent with the Operating Schedule'.

 

If I find time I'll scan and PDF one of the ones I have here.

Very useful info that. Those part As are supposedly to be displayed somewhere in view of the public? I vaguely recall "XYZ, licensed for public dancing singing and music" type signs similar to the old over the door Pub signs. I've never actually noticed a premises license in a theatre venue. I've spotted lots of Bingo licenses though, fruit machine ones, holiday camp venue ones and even a zoo license not too long ago.

[Brian]

Those part As are supposedly to be displayed somewhere in view of the public?

It's a condition of the Licence that Part B must be "clearly displayed on the Premises within view of the public"

 

Even my local Londis has it on display.

[delicolor]

Extract from our terms of hire: (In fact it's the first item on the first page...)

Information in Programmes: This section is mandatory for all public performances.

 

The following information must be printed verbatim on the programme of any public performance in the theatre and foyer on the same page as the cast or other particulars of the entertainment.

 

In accordance with the requirements of the Warwickshire County Council:-

 

(I) The public may leave at the end of the performance or exhibition by all exit doors and such doors must at that time be open.

 

(ii) All gangways, corridors, staircases and external passageways intended for exit shall be kept entirely free from obstruction, whether temporary or permanent.

 

(iii) Persons must not be permitted to stand or sit in any of the gangways intersecting the seating or to sit in any of the gateways.

 

Notes – Section (ii) includes all access-ways and corridors to exits in the backstage/dressing room areas

The middle section is the compulsory bit from the county council.

 

Leeds Licensing have replied to me. They say that Theatres Act 1968 was repealed with the introduction of the Licensing act 2003.

 

I queried what happened to the conditions quoted in programmes, citing thie following example which was from a Mott the Hoople national tour in 1974 (an arbritary Google hit)

 

"In accordance with the requirements of the Greater London Council and the Watch Committees of the various towns and cities of the tour, the following conditions must be observed:-

1. The public may leave at the end of the performance by all exit and entrance doors and such doors must at that time be open.

2. All gangways, corridors, staircases and external passageways intended for exit shall be kept entirely free from obstruction whether permenent or temporary.

3. Persons shall not be permitted to stand or sit in any of the gangways intersecting the seating, or to sit in any of the other gangways or any unseated space in the Auditorium, unless standing in such space has been specially allowed by the G.L.C. or the Watch Committee, as applicable. If standing be permitted in the gangways at the sides and the rear of the seating it shall be limited to the numbers indicated in the notices exhibited in those positions.

4. The safety curtain must be lowered and raised once immediately before the commencement of each performance, so as to ensure it being in proper working order."

 

 

They say that Condition 1 is on all licenses but further conditions are site specific. They've agreed to send me the Annex 2 for the venue where the kerfuffle happened.

[Andrew Edwards]

Our conditions do not mention putting anything a programme. Indeed it says nothing about showing a safety curtain either.

 

I'd be interested what the conditions for the town hall venue has to say.

[delicolor]

Our conditions do not mention putting anything a programme. Indeed it says nothing about showing a safety curtain either.

 

I'd be interested what the conditions for the town hall venue has to say.

 

Well, they don't have an Iron for a start!

 

When I get them I'll put anything interesting up. I don#t think they are saying it has to be in the programme, only that the audience can leave by any exit at the end of the show.

 

Of course, being an LEA, they could be talking spherical plurals on the first iteration. How would clause 2 (not obstructing the exits at any time) be site specific?

[TeeJay]

Not able to contribute to the licensing discussion directly but if you happen to be visiting la Scala near Kings Cross, I noticed as my bus went past that one of the fire exits was blocked thigh high with rubbish bags at around 10pm on a Wednesday evening

 

StreetView of fire exit that was blocked

 

It's the door nearest the pool hall entrance on the south west corner

[delicolor]

I've now got hold of the venue Annex 2. Disappointingly, it looks like boilerplate to me.

 

The licensing officer has backtracked and explained that the venue applied for a new license under the 2003 act and therefore none of the 1968 terms were attached.

 

 

Annex 2 - Conditions consistent with the Operating Schedule

 

Public Safety

 

The Licensee will have a written procedure for crowd control and management. All staff will be instructed in the operation of the procedure. The policy will be available for inspection at the request of an authorised officer.

 

The location, number, fire rating and standard of fire extinguishers will be agreed with WYFRS prior to installation and will comply with that agreement at all times.

 

Public Nuisance

 

Noise will be inaudible at the nearest noise sensitive premises between 23:00 hours and 07.00 hours the following day (where entertainment takes place less frequently)

 

No nuisance will be caused by noise or vibration emanating from the premises from external plant or equipment.

 

The Licensee will ensure all lighting in the premises is of a suitable intensity and positioning. All lighting on or at the premises will be operated in a manner which will not cause a nuisance to nearby properties.

 

The premises will be operated in a manner which will prevent unwanted odours causing a nuisance to persons in the immediate area or nearby properties.

 

The licensed premises will store and dispose of business waste correctly and legally. The premises supervisor will ensure that the waste is prevented from seeping or spilling from where it is stored.

 

Clear and legible notices will be displayed at exits, car parks and other circulatory areas requesting patrons to leave the premises having regard to the needs of local residents, in particular emphasising the need to refrain from shouting, slamming car doors, sounding horns and loud use of vehicle stereos.

 

A facility will be provided for customers to order taxis/private hire vehicles. Telephone numbers for taxi firms/private hire companies will be displayed in a prominent location.

 

Protection of Children from Harm

 

The Licensee will perform the necessary background checks including relevant police checks on all potential staff before offering them employment. The Licensee will report any child related concerns to the police he/she has about potential staff, existing staff and customers.

 

The Licensee will comply with the written guidance for protecting children from harm issued by Leeds City Council, Department of Social Services.

[Andrew Edwards]

It is interesting how these things vary from LA to LA for no apparent reason. The amount of detail seems to be arbitrary and there is nothing on it specific to a venue, it is all generic.

 

I suppose they add on stuff that they have had a problem with in the past. Then at the same time, miss stuff off that you would have thought would have been there.

 

Not sure why the Fire Service want to know about extinguishers, they had that particular responsibility taken off them a long time ago.

 

A facility for ordering taxis...hmm. I think you would be hard pushed to find a venue miserable enough to not allow people to use their phone if asked. Furthermore, if the number of people asking to use the phone was significant then you would install a payphone. This clause seems a little heavy handed. You'll be expected to carry them to the taxi in a sedan chair next. :P

 

I think ultimately, the venue can decided exactly where you exit under normal conditions. The only failing in this case was customer service based in that it allowed patrons to follow a route to a 'dead end'. We used to have a final exit (from stage though rather than house) that was alarmed as it opened out to a major thorough fair. The main reason for this is it was continually being wedged open while people nipped out to the car or for a smoke. It was then frequently left wide open with no one around giving anyone access all areas. Signs made no difference to the number of times we had to reset the alarm. I lost count of the amount of times people would stand smoking next to a 110dB alarm as if nothing was wrong!

 

After we had new doors fitted everywhere, the alarm was not put back. For some reason we don't have the same problem any more.

 

We have the exact opposite problem to the OT. 80% of the audience want to leave via the main door despite the fact that the other 3 are open. It always amazes me how people will climb all the way up through the auditorium to the first floor only to go back down the stairs the other side of the bar to leave (without getting another drink). Even if you are unfamiliar with the venue, it is obvious that one of the lower exits goes the same direction as the upper one only without going up and down stairs.

Sadly, this behaviour also occurs during evacuations and has resulted in massive loss of life in venues that do not have attendants to marshal.

[delicolor]

I think ultimately, the venue can decided exactly where you exit under normal conditions. The only failing in this case was customer service based in that it allowed patrons to follow a route to a 'dead end'.

 

It isn't a dead end. The hall has three pairs of doors at stalls level. The east pair lead into the main public area, what is effectively an L shaped corridor.

 

The west pair of doors leads into what is effectively a staircase landing with the exit doors immediately opposite opening directly to the outside. To the left is a double flight of open balustraded stairs going up to the balcony and a similar one going down to a lesser hall below. To the right is a kitchen/pot wash room.

 

The outer doors were obstructed by the large trolley with bottles on, detritus from a temporary bar. It was swiftly wheeled back into the kitchen after I saw it.

 

The irony is that the licensee for the temporary bar is a JP who you would think would know about obstructing fire exits.