Help With Everything

[paulfurze]

Hello Everybody,

 

Sorry for this being a bit long and even more sorry some of my questions are going to sound plain stupid but I gotta ask ;)

A modified 'for lighting version' of this is in the lighting section. Mr Admin if that's wrong please let me know how to 'cross post it correctly'.

 

I've been asked by our local councillor to come up with specs / prices for a sound reinforcement and lighting system for our local town hall.

I've never had to spec out a full hall before and they've also asked to keep the price as low as possible (council eh!).

Thus, before I even start looking at kit specifics I really need some pointers in the right direction.

Please. if you can pass comment on here do so, all help really appreciated.

 

Ok the venue:

Has a good stage (proper slope on it as well)

Holds 210 downstairs and has a balcony that holds a further 60.

Its used for all sorts of functions from Folk to Rock and Theatrical shows and Dramas.

 

The current lighting system (of which over half does not work!)

has:...

6 bars of 8 lights each (48 channels) across the stage

Strand ACT 6 dimmers with two 'demuxes' driving that lot.

A light control desk (can't say what that is yet...but its very old and certainly needs replacing!)

Two fixed position spots located along the side of the hall on the walls (approx 30ft throw)

3 Manual type follow spots (located high on the balcony approx 90ft throw. These still work ok so I guess we'd keep them)

A few other lamps located around the house (total of about 10 channels, again most don't work)

 

The lanterns themselves are very old (think they we're installed in the 50's) and both the Electrician and the Caretaker suggest that we replace them all along with the bars.

 

Questions then are....

 

Desk.

What desk?

Sorry, I know that's such an awfully big question but I'm after such things as functionality. It'll be used for music concerts and Theatre stuff.

It'll need to be programmable (though I guess most are these days) and those programs'll need to be 'saveable' on something external.

Would you use a computer driven system or use a dedicated desk?

 

Dimmers.

I don't know if those Strand dimmers could be serviced or if it'd be cheaper just to replace them?

 

Stage Bars.

The on stage bars have seen better days, so could you just point me in the direction of todays methods etc?

What's the 'normal' number of lights on a bar? Is there a normal?

What's normal for a stage layout? % of floods % of profiles % of par cans.... help I'm lost here!

Protocol.

I'm lead to believe that sending DMX about is a bit old fashioned and that other protocols are used today?

I've no idea on this and all suggestions are welcome.

 

Additionals.

Not really sure about these in this topic but is it normal that the lighting desk also controls the curtain winch?

What about smoke machines etc?

 

If your still reading at this point, many many thanks.

I understand that what I'm asking for is a fair bit but if you give me a pointer (or even a web link) I'll wander off and do the leg work.

Although I may come back with a whole lot more questions :)

 

I know that some on here are sales outlets etc. Please by all means email me direct with suggestions if you'd like.

 

Thanks again.

 

Paul.

[jonhole]

I've never had to spec out a full hall before and they've also asked to keep the price as low as possible (council eh!).

I guess some form of figures are what you need here. One councils budget for this project might be another's for the LX desk alone. Without any form of budget this is impossible to say.

 

 

What desk?

Sorry, I know that's such an awfully big question but I'm after such things as functionality. It'll be used for music concerts and Theatre stuff.

It'll need to be programmable (though I guess most are these days) and those programs'll need to be 'saveable' on something external.

Would you use a computer driven system or use a dedicated desk?

There are lots of questions to be asked here - do you need control of moving lights / LEDs? Even if they aren't in the rig, will they ever be brought in for a show or hired? Might they be bought in the future?

 

Sounds like you're going to want to run lots of submasters - enabling you to put different 'looks' on different faders and mix and match between them.

 

Most desks allow you to save to USB memory sticks now.

 

 

Protocol.

I'm lead to believe that sending DMX about is a bit old fashioned and that other protocols are used today?

I've no idea on this and all suggestions are welcome.

DMX is fine. You can convert DMX over cat5 for long runs, which might be beneficial, but you definitely don't need to look into using Ethernet protocols.

 

 

Additionals.

Not really sure about these in this topic but is it normal that the lighting desk also controls the curtain winch?

What about smoke machines etc?.

There's no real limit to what you *can* do, but for the curtain you would have to install the electrical motors with DMX control, and probably some form of camera control to ensure that they are actually ready backstage before you open the curtains. I personally would never do this through a lighting desk.

 

Smoke machine wise, most 'professional' smoke machines will have DMX control.

 

Hope this helps as a starting point!

[GridGirl]

Ok the venue:

Has a good stage (proper slope on it as well)

Holds 210 downstairs and has a balcony that holds a further 60.

Its used for all sorts of functions from Folk to Rock and Theatrical shows and Dramas.

 

The current lighting system (of which over half does not work!)

has:...

6 bars of 8 lights each (48 channels) across the stage

Strand ACT 6 dimmers with two 'demuxes' driving that lot.

A light control desk (can't say what that is yet...but its very old and certainly needs replacing!)

Two fixed position spots located along the side of the hall on the walls (approx 30ft throw)

3 Manual type follow spots (located high on the balcony approx 90ft throw. These still work ok so I guess we'd keep them)

A few other lamps located around the house (total of about 10 channels, again most don't work)

 

The lanterns themselves are very old (think they we're installed in the 50's) and both the Electrician and the Caretaker suggest that we replace them all along with the bars.

 

Some of the lanterns may be worth keeping. If they're old Strand Pattern 223 or 743 (or even 123) fresnels, with a bit of a clean-up and maybe new cables and plugs, they're definitely worth keeping. I love those fresnels - we still have them in stock and they get used regularly. Some of the older Strand kit isn't worth it - if you can find out model numbers we can advise further. There's no reason to throw out old kit if it can become useful again with a bit of TLC - while it might not be as bright as new gear, it still puts light out the front end....

 

Desk.

What desk?

Sorry, I know that's such an awfully big question but I'm after such things as functionality. It'll be used for music concerts and Theatre stuff.

It'll need to be programmable (though I guess most are these days) and those programs'll need to be 'saveable' on something external.

Would you use a computer driven system or use a dedicated desk?

 

Dedicated desk all the way - but that's just me. I know a lot of people on these forums love the Chamsys MagicQ software, but my gut feeling is that in a situation where possibly quite a few people - some of whom may not know very much - need to use the desk, then an actual desk is going to suit your purpose better. There are so many options out there these days; we've just gone to an ETC Ion and as a theatre desk I love it, but it may be more desk than you need - are you looking just to run generics or are you going to want to be able to run movers/LEDs/other toys off it as well? The Ion's baby brother Element may be more suited to you - or perhaps something like the Zero88 Orb. I guess we need a bit more info before being any more specific!

 

Dimmers.

I don't know if those Strand dimmers could be serviced or if it'd be cheaper just to replace them?

Do they still mostly work?! Getting them serviced is likely to be cheaper, unless they don't go at all....

 

Stage Bars.

The on stage bars have seen better days, so could you just point me in the direction of todays methods etc?

What's the 'normal' number of lights on a bar? Is there a normal?

What's normal for a stage layout? % of floods % of profiles % of par cans.... help I'm lost here!

 

How big is the stage? There is no "normal", it all depends on the space. We use fresnels for general washes, floods and cyc lights for the cyc, parcans for almost anything, and profiles for specials and gobos.....need more info!

 

Protocol.

I'm lead to believe that sending DMX about is a bit old fashioned and that other protocols are used today?

I've no idea on this and all suggestions are welcome.

 

DMX is still very much in use and not old-fashioned! If it ain't broke, don't fix it....particularly if you keep the old dimmers and demuxes. Any desk you buy will spit out DMX/

 

Additionals.

Not really sure about these in this topic but is it normal that the lighting desk also controls the curtain winch?

What about smoke machines etc?

 

I wouldn't let the lighting desk control anything mechanical, unless it has all sorts of secondary safety measures in place. Although, having said that, I did work in a venue where we showed films and the house lights and main tabs were controlled by the projector - but it was far from foolproof!! Smoke machines, no problem - most will take DMX and you're away. Certain video software will also respond to DMX (usually over something like ArtNet - you can't plug a 5-pin XLR into a laptop!).

 

If your still reading at this point, many many thanks.

I understand that what I'm asking for is a fair bit but if you give me a pointer (or even a web link) I'll wander off and do the leg work.

Although I may come back with a whole lot more questions ;)

 

TBH, on an install of this size, you need to get companies in to recommend solutions - we can help as best we can, but without seeing the venue it's tricky for us!

[paulfurze]

Wow, Jonhole/GridGirl thank you, never expected anyone to respond that quick!

 

I've been on the phone all afternoon to lots of companies asking for them to come over and suggest what they'd do.

Looks like I'm going on a steep learning curve ride!

 

I'll try and get all the model numbers and stuff for the lanterns they currently have then I can be more specific with questions.

Seems to be stacks of 'options' available. Getting me head around some of it, enough to make even a partaily 'informed' decision, looks like a lot of reading and 'jenning' up.

 

Thanks.

Paul.

[tommulliner]

Hey there! Try the FAQ page on lighting. Check out all of the past threads of people asking similar questions to the questions you need answers to, its very helpful. Alternatively, use the search function at the top of the page to search for past threads about the same topics you needs answers to. Hope you find what your looking for.

Tom.

[TomM]

Paul

 

Whereabouts in Scotland are you? I'm not up there, but you might find that there is someone with a bit more experience than yourself in your area, who might be prepared to drop around and have a look and give you better advice than we can on a forum. Were it in my area, in a quiet period, I would probably be prepared to have a look in exchange for a pint or two, I'm sure I'm not the only one!!

 

Tom